HOWEDY liea you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
animal abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic life
long incurable malignant maliciHOWES mental case,
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:UqWdndYPILXukt3VnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> I've been out of town so I'm coming in late.
You been in the MENTAL HOWEspital again, liea?
> I've only now finished reading the thread in its entirety.
That so? There's nearly 200 posts in this thread, mostly from
your fellHOWE LYIN DOG ABUSIN MENTAL CASE pals
and of curse, replies to most of them from HOWER "intellectual"
pal, Phil <{}: ~ ) >
> Others on the list have already tried to clear up some of your
> misconceptions about clicker training,
INDEED? There AIN'T NO "clicker trainers" on this forum, liea.
The ONLY ATTEMPT at clicker trainin was made years ago by
lyin frosty dahl and Master Of Deception blankman AND IT
FAILED dismally:
Message 1 in thread
From: Amy Dahl (a...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Clicker retriever project fizzles
Date: 1999/06/19
Thanks to all who gave advice before. I figure I owe
you an update, but in some ways the news is not good.
Although I learned some really useful things from
the reading material that was suggested, somewhere
between the personality of the student and the manner
in which I applied the material, we didn't get too far
with the clicker stuff.
Basically although I kept the sessions shorter (fewer
repetitions/rewards than the 50-80 recomended by my
various sources), Rosie seemed to get bored. I went
from dry kibble to soaked kibble to pupperoni to hot
dogs in the attempt to keep her motivated.
As I said before she learned left-side walking in about
one session but I abandoned it. Then I worked on
targeting and on "speak." Rosie did well at both until
I tried to reward only when I used the cue.
I went back to giving the cue and rewarding every time.
Still, though, she'd get about two or three hot dogs then
grab either the target stick or something else to carry
around, or go over to the picnic table with the pile of
retrieving dummies and look meaningfully at them.
My suspicion is that this outcome is more a consequence
of Rosie's nature than my application of the method. I
have always been very good at reading and following
directions (and I had videos, too).
She, however, is bred from a long line of die-hard
retrievers who were selected, not only for their love
of retrieving, but for their potential to be trained
effectively by "show-'em- and-make-'em" methods.
Amy Dahl
BWEEEAAAHAAAA!!!
Here's the deal on clicker trainin:
From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?
> Jen "artbylucy" <artbyl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:OMudnRS23OLEc7zenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Hello, Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for positive-only dog
> > training, in particular clicker training?
> > Thanks, Lucy
Jen wrote:
> I would love to know of one as well. If there was enough people
> interested maybe we could start one. I've just started clicker training
my
> dog and have been doing the positive training for a while now. I think
> it's great!!
Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.
The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.
With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u.
Free download, nothing
sold, no mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free
sup****t if needed.
With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.
Not difficult.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.
You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.
Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.
Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands.
Dr. Von
---------------
gary wilcox of Massachusetts Institute of Technology
impressed professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer of
the ANAL-ytic behavior department Master's Degree
Program at UofWI with his DELAYED PUNISHMENT
methods to augment his clicker training FAILURES.
Clicker trainin RELIES on offering and witholding
BRIBES which INCREASES anxiety to dangerous
levels which the critter will likely to REFLEX to
when asked even years later, to do the commands
he was originally "trained" to do.
In the event of additional stress, such as when greeting
guests at the door or meetin a dog in the park or seein
a kat, may push the dog over the top and instigate an
accidental bite.
> It's full of good advice on training,
No it ain't, she's a liar and dog abuser and MENTAL
CASE, like yourself and your punk thug coward pals.
Clicker trainin ONLY works when the trainer can
CON-TROL ALL the food in the environment and
provided the critter is HUNGRY, therefore EXPERT
clicker trainers FEED THE ENTIRE DIET as part of
the clicker training program.
Here's your pathetic miserable stinkin lyin plagiarizing
punk thug coward mental case pal diane blankman on
CLICKER TRAININ:
From: black...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1999/12/07
Subject: Re: The e-collar debate on RPDB
Lynn Kosmakos <lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
: Amy Dahl wrote:
:> Another reason that group hasn't flocked to clickers
:> might be that, as it appears to me looking at Morgan
:> Spector and Gary Wilkes, all-new methods needed to
:> be devised to teach the same old stuff. Retriever work
:> is so incredibly sophisticated that devising all-new
:> methods is a seriously daunting task.
: I think you're absolutely right. There's a corollary in
: the almost universal use of purely positive training
: techniques in agility, a newer s****t without a long-
: established body of work on how it "should" be done.
Hmmm, well "purely positive" is a bit of a mantra on
the agility training lists but I don't know very many
trainers who are successful and actually do "purely
positive."
In my observation it is mostly positive training, a
modest amount of negative punishment (withdrawing
of something the dog wants to correct unwanted
behavior) and most trainers do judiciously use positive
punishment although less frequently and in a much
milder form than is common in other dog s****ts.
Corrections are very common even in agility. For
example, if the dog self releases from a contact zone
the typical response is to correct the dog by picking
it up and re-placing it on the contact zone.
: I'm not familiar with Spector's or Wilkes' work in
: field training, but I've seen some real problems when
: people try to apply new techniques to areas they don't
: actively participate in. Both Gary Wilkes and
: Clothier/Rice have written and lectured on training
: a SAR alert and mantrailing, respectively. Neither
: work is respected by people who actually do those
: things, because it is simply incomplete and inadequate.
: It seems that people need to have some experience
: with the full training program before they can
: understand it well enough to redesign parts of it.
The biggest disappointment I had in that clicker class
I took was that the instructor, a SAR particiapant, did
not demonstrate the strengths of the clicker for particular
SAR related tasks such as scent work.
The sad thing was is that she failed to "sell" the
technique based on its strengths and thus lost the
op****tunity to broaden the horizons of the participants.
I don't know what the problem was, except that likely
she may be a fine trainer but an inadequate teacher.
Diane Blackman
d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.dog-play.com
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAA!!
While my intent here was/is to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and
DISCREDIT *you*, liea, I think its im****tant that Phil get a
glimpse of the BIG PICTURE, evidence that you and your PALS
are lyin dog abusin mental cases, seein as he's SUCH a devHOWET
INTELLECTUAL and doesn't have the time, aptitude or integrity to
DO HIS OWN RESEARCH <{}: ~ ) >
Let's TRY THIS for a start, eh?:
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.
--------------------
> Honestly,
BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAAAA!!!!
THAT'S curiHOWES, comin from the likes of YOU,
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn!
You're THE MOST DISHONEST poster we got here abHOWETS,
EXXXCEPT probably for sinofa***** and janet boss and
marcel and theresa psychoclHOWEN and professor SCRUFF
SHAKE dermer and lying frosty dahl and your own PERSONAL
REAL LIFE PAL Master Of Deception blankman and well,
ooks like the list could go on for a quite a while and The Freakin
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard AIN'T got all night for
THAT, OTOH, PERHAPS HE DOES but just ain't got all that
much jam for it all, eh, lyin "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
HOWEver, you DO get the POINT, don't you.
IN FACT, The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard has
been MISSIN ***** SLAPPIN you arHOWEND lately.
Ooops! PROFESSIONALLY SPEAKIN, that's CHIN CUFFIN
you arHOWEND, to use behavioral terminology correct.
BY QUOTIN YOUR LIES.
LIKE THIS:
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is im****tant - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
> people just get worn down by the nonsense sometimes.
NOT The Freakin Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard, lyin
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn: "That which does not KILL us makes
us STRONGER."
AIN'T THAT what you attribute your "TRAINING SUCCESS"
to, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn? Hey? You remember
EVALUATING them Cana Corsos who MURDERED Diane Whipple?
BEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
You SEZ you had NO EXXXPERIENCE with K-9 dogs at that time!
AND THEN YOU DENIED IT and MADE
YOURSELF A EXXXPERT WITNESS.
And THEN you DENIED THAT too. REMEMBER? JUST LIKE
HOWE you DENIED ever "reelin the dog in" after TELLIN
us HOWE YOU DO IT at the park. REMEMBER THAT?:
Lynn K." <java...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.0109081028.5fcc087d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Jerry Howe" <jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> <news:XKUl7.15254$VX3.770667@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
> > Hello People, "Huh? I've Never Reeled In A Dog In My Life. I Don't
Like
> > The Long Line Method And Don't Use It," lynn k. Read the following and
> > then let's discuss proofing.
> Maybe you want to read it again, Jerry. I don't use the long line
method
> of teaching a recall. You know, the old "give the command and reel the
> dog in" thing.
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: dog comes when he feels like it
Date: 1999/05/21
>"A.Waugh" wrote: Does this mean no trips to the fenced off-leash dog park
?
>At what age should a dog be trained 100% ? What about socialization?
I've found dog parks to be great places for proofing the
recall, even with young puppies. Let the pup play with
other pups, while on a long line.
Call the pup, reeling in if necessary, and praise the heck out
of him, then let him go play again. The reason this works so
well at the dog park is that the pup learns that leaving the
fun to obey the command doesn't mean the fun is over. A very
good thing to learn early.
Lynn K
You got nerve, and I got time. j;~}
And NHOWE you know the rest of the story...
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
-----------------------------
OR HOWE ABHOWE the three different ways you use
your pronged spiked pinch choke collar as a sound cue??
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> And while we're travelling in the Way-Back Machine, guess who showed up
on
> another forum today
You mean a PRIVATE MODERATED forum, lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn, where ONLY LIARS DOG ABUSERS and
ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM INCURABLE
MENTAL CASES like YOU post? Might that have been the
PRO TRAINER'S HOT LIST, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn?
> with detailed advice on how to home-euthanize your pets? Elaine
> Gallegos/Gallant.
Oh, well, at least SHE AIN'T NEVER GOT BAGGED FOR
LYIN and SHE DON'T MURDER DOGS PROFESSIONALLY
like HOWE YOU DO for PROFIT and CALL IT RESCUE:
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
----------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
> Lynn K.
HERE'S THE ONLY THING YOU'VE EVER
SAID that YOU NEVER DENIED:
WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways.
It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she
wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read "The Unquiet
Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
----------
HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
java...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> lucyaa wrote:
> "Involve praise" is not the same as "praising an aggressive dog". No
> rewards - just praise. I thought that the distinction is obvious to
> anyone - my mistake ---------
> Lucy, just how many hundreds of aggressive dogs have you turned around?
Just HOWE MANY aggressive dogs have you
MURDERED, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
> Behavioral science works on observing responses.
That so? YOU HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER
dogs and LIE abHOWET it.
> Handler intentions are completely meaningless.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
WHAT does THAT supposed to mean, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
> Lynn K.
Subject: HOWE COME SAR Dogs FAIL?
They DON'T. Their "trainers" FAIL.
HOWEDY People,
Here's WON of rpdb's MOST SUCCESSFUL SAR trainers:
From: Chris Kosmakos (chris...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Newbies Beware of Dogman's Incivility
Date: 1999/02/01
FREDERICK HASSEN (FHAS...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
) wrote:
: I know you do alot more than carry a clipboard Lynn, but if
: you guys ever need a clipboard carrier----I'm game. I'll
: bet you can learn more about S&R just through osmosis---by
: being out there with them, than most people could ever think
: about learning in their lifetime.
Boy, are you ever right about that, Fred! We've had 2 in the
past 2 weeks that were a real "challenge & op****tunity". One
was a private plane that crashed into a mtn. side and gave all
sorts of op****tunities to learn about ELT emergency signals
and stabilizing aircraft to extract a body. The other was a
person with a psychotic disorder that was running and hiding
from the searchers. What was interesting about that was that
his scent was everywhere because he was looping and crossing
within an area multiple times. I learned tons about scent
pooling and aging from the Bloodhound/Coonhound cross I was
working with.
I've never seen a trailing dog give a clearer indication of a
problem on a trail or lost scent. She would raise her head,
shake out the ac***ulated drool & scent, and try again. If
she didn't pick up the scent, she would turn and try at right
angles to both sides, shaking out each time. 3 shake outs and
she would turn and look for further direction from the humans.
That dog is incredibly easy to read. So easy that I could
almost "see" the way scent was moving from her actions.
There were 2 other searches in the same time period and 2 new
Bloodhound pups to start training. My big learning from them
is that Bloodhound pups are not necessarily looking for a
place to pee when their noses are on the ground - their noses
are always on the ground!
And it isn't just in SAR work. A trainer I work with made a
brilliant call recently on a really sharp/shy dog. He quickly
picked up that the dog has CEA and has no peripheral vision.
I was indeed impressed.
Frankly, if I ever think I know it all or am not open to
learning something from every incident and every dog, I hope
to hell someone tells me to hang up both my uniform and my
leashes. And I'll always be distrustful of anyone who claims
to know everything.
Lynn K.
Perhaps your problem is you can't blame
your own failure in SAR on a scape goat:
From: Lynn K. (java...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Free Feeding (Was Re: Repeating Commands)
Date: 2001-07-17 21:59:53 PST
dogstar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(DogStar716) wrote in message
<news:20010717101836.26725.00004349@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
> For example, if one was to use the dogs regular kibble as a motivator in
> class, the dog will probably not be as motivated as he would be if a
> different type of treat was offered (say, a piece of hotdog).
Not necessarily. Remember that there is value added
to the treat by virtue of getting it from the handler as a
reward.
That's the reason I handfed Java for a week.
To add value to the food.
It isn't just another piece of kibble when it
comes from Mom as a reward.
Lynn K.
From: Lynn K. (java...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Kali gets her CDX!
Date: 2003-10-26 13:49:37 PST
"KrisHur" <kris_br...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
<news:vpnufuisi9pve2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
> THANKS!
You deserve it! You have my empathy on the heeling
problem. 2 of 29 qualified in Open A & B this morning
at Sacramento - ring fouled overnight by conformation
people exercising their dogs.
A Borzoi vomited on the spot, a Rottie peed on it, and
almost every other dog (including Java) dropped their
nose to the spot and started tracking.
ARRRGH!
Lynn K.
From: Lynn K. (java...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Goood dog, baaaad sheepies
Date: 2003-07-03 00:02:20 PST
T...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote in message news:
> Ah - yes a difference there. Tsuki goes into chase mode too - but
because
> he thinks its fun.
Funny how different dogs are so, well, different.
Java gets extremely frustrated by repeatedly
having to pick up split sheep, particularly when
I'm the reason for it. If I cause him that kind
of work too many times he'll simply take it upon
himself to work the sheep alone.
It's humbling.
> And he does have enough power that if he just keeps putting the
pressure
> on he really doesn't need to grip, it will back off. So far he's never
> had a sheep challenge AND stand its ground.
Like most GSDs, Java has a LOT of power. But
there's a bottle-raised wether at the barn that is
useless for herding because he ignores pressure.
He just walks towards the dog. Java gets madder
than hell at him and recognizes him on sight :-)
Lynn K.
> But until you step away from your keyboard and actually do some
fieldwork,
From: Lynn K. (java...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: The Smart Sheep Sez
Date: 2003-07-05 21:30:57 PST
"Uh Oh, I don't like the looks of that dog coming
in. It's too hot to play with Power Dogs. I'm
going back into the pen, even if I have to jump
the gate. Well, maybe I can hide amongst my
sisters. Nope, gotta get back to the pen. That
dog's in my way. I'll jump over him & miss the
sharp end. Now I'm in the corner and I'm not
leaving. Don't care what the sisters are doing.
He's coming, gotta get airborne again! If I can
talk the sisters into splitting one way, I'll go
the other way. Again and again."
Needless to say, no qualifying for Java today.
If I see that ewe (Sweet Potato) in the group
we get tomorrow, I think I'll pack up my dog and
go home :-(
Lynn K.
> any opinions you form are going to be baseless.
From: Lynn K. (java...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Teaching Behaviours before corrections
Date: 2001-08-03 22:04:17 PST
"Jerry Howe" <jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
<news:lhna7.8216$jL6.764509@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
> What did flunking out Java tell you about your "tests"? Didn't you test
> him? Seems to me your testing failed, or your method failed.
- That I don't agree with the conventional wisdom of
scores of "3" across the board in the Volhard test
indicate the best SAR prospect.
- That a bringsel alert is not the best choice for a long
backed dog in very hilly terrain with large distances
between handler & victim.
- That GSDs should be given more time to mature
and brought along more slowly than Labs or BCs.
- That endurance should be tested earlier in a training program.
Since you asked. (All of which has nothing
to do with selecting K9s.)
Lynn K.
> growing out of unwanted behaviors, and neutering. I won't repeat.
Perhaps you should, liea, seein as there was
several OPINIONS stated AS FACTS?
> The only thing I can think of to add that might be helpful is that
> sometimes it's possible to discourage an unwanted behavior by training
an
> incompatible alternate behavior.
Yeah. HOWEver, "trainin an incompatible alternate behavior"
REWARDS the dog for DOIN the UNDESIRABLE BEHAVIOR
and the dog will quickly LEARN to DO the UNDESIRABLE
behavior to reap the REWARDS of doin the incompatible alternate
behavior.
Aside from THAT, "trainin an incompatible alternate behavior"
usually requires an EXXXTREME investment of effort and time.
Additionally, when "trainin an incompatible alternate behavior"
the use of TREATS / BRIBES increases anXXXIHOWESNESS
and often CAUSES the dog to ATTACK when the REWARD is
NOT given in the future after havin "LEARNED" the incompatible
behavior.
The ONLY correct way to think of trainin an incompatible alternate
behavior for ANXXXIHOWESNESS behavior problems is, IT'S
INCOMPATIBLE.
> This isn't a perfect solution, but it is a good direction to go in.
That so? Seems you've got LOTS of IMPERFECT solutions and
"good directions to go in", liea. We'll be reviewing YOUR OWN
SUCCESS trainin your own fear aggressive dog, Cubbe.
> Start training a SIT. Choose your training method. I like clicker
> training (the real thing, not the crazy distraction business mentioned
in
> the thread),
RIGHT. That "CRAZY DISTRACTION BUSINESS MENTIONED
IN THE THREAD" NEVER WORKS on accHOWENTA the CRAZY
DISTRACTION MUST BE variably alternating and NON PHYSICAL
and INSTANTLY follHOWED by PROLONGED NON PHYSICAL
PRAISE and preceeded by PRAISE IN ADVANCE.
> but it's not right for all trainers and all dogs,
Well then, liea, if a "METHOD" is "not right for all trainers and
all dogs" then that method FAILS and should NOT BE USED
for ANY dog.
> so consider other methods as well.
You mean, EXXXPERIMENT, liea?
> Teach a really reliable SIT/STAY. Practice it often at many
> times and many situations. Reward appropriately. Then, when you see
> your dog doing the unwanted humping behavior, command him to SIT. He
> can't do both at the same time.
That so? You don't think a doggy can sit and hump? Hey liea?
Ain't you the EXXXPERT who couldn't tell a doggy chew toy
from a *** TOY?
> You won't be able to do this when you're not home.
You mean, the METHOD WON'T WORK on accHOWENTA
the dog will VARIABLY REINFORCE the undesirable behavior
when you ain't there to jerk an choke IT into a sit??
> Like I said,
Don't you mean 'AS I SEZ', liea?
I mean, you bein university educated, an all?
> it's not perfect, but it might help,
HOWE is it gonna "MIGHT HELP" if the "self-rewarding behavior"
is REINFORCED when the ABUSER ain't there to FORCE CON-TROLL?
> and there's nothing wrong with a dog with a reliable SIT/STAY anyway.
EXXXCEPT when the sit/stay command is trained usin BRIBES
and REWARDS or TREATS and the dog's anXXXIHOWESNESS
level INCREASES at a crucial time when you need a PERFECT
sit/stay and the dog ATTACKS a guest enterin your HOWES LIKE
HOWE your own dog Cubbe done to your ONLY REAL LIFE IN
PERSON BEAST FRIEND??
REMEMBER, liea? NO PROBLEMO, I'll copy the original post below
for Phil's edification and your EMBARRASSMENT an HUMILIATION.
> --Lia
Here's liea CLICKER TRAININ her own dog:
"Might Cubbe Be Ready For Harsher Training Techniques?
I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at
the beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help:
http://tinyurl.com/fbqnw
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
"Cubbe Got Out In The Neighborhood Leashless: It Was
Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With Her Usual
ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To Give Cubbe
A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap. I don't even think she broke
the kid's skin and as far as I'm concerned, it was the kid's own
fault. Jim ran out and got control of Cubbe right away. I got
Ellie some alcohol and a bandage. The scary thing is that,
even though the damage is minor, it does qualify as a bite
since Cubbe did mean to do it.
I guess I should just learn from it and never let Cubbe
greet someone like that again, but I'm horribly torn up.
I've said that I would never keep an aggressive dog. Now
the whole issue is so complicated. Cubbe is great even with
kids when we meet them in the neighborhood."
AND THEN Cubbe ATTACKED TWO CHILDREN
standing in her SHOCK ZONE inside her HOWES
and an innocent child at the park
and liea's ONLY REAL LIFE IN PERSON
FORMER BEAST FRIEND
and an innocent defenseless elderly dog on the street
and your veterinarian and your boyfriend!
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
>> Can someone point me in the right direction with books or websites to
>> help with my two dogs?
Oh, INDEEDY~!
liea's got LOTS of information and advice~!
>> They're good dogs just need some obedience.
But of curse~! JUST LIKE HOWE Cubbe was when liea
first got her. All Cubbe needed was a little OBEDIENCE
TRAINING to teach IT not to PULL and RUN HOWET
on her <{}: ~ ) >
>> I wish I could take them both to training school, but nowadays with all
>> the shots and meds we are almost bone dry.
> It doesn't sound like you have too terribly difficult problems.
Yeah. It ain't like Hank's dogs attack the veterinarian or his
spHOWES or guests in his HOWES. Hank's mother needs
to GET RID of her dog on accHOWENTA some simple, EZ
to rehabilitate behavior problems <{}: ~ ( >
> Both dogs sound like they're merely untrained,
INDEEDY. JUST LIKE HOWE Cubbe was <{}: ~ ) >
> not like they have temperament problems.
Neither did Cubbe, till liea started JERKIN an CHOKIN
IT on her pronged spiked pinch choke collar <{}: ~ ( >
> (You came to that conclusion. I'm agreeing with you.)
INDEED?!
> I know you say you're short on funds,
Hand means he AIN'T GOT the money to WASTE on
idiotic abusive OBEDIENCE TRAINING, liea <{}: ~ ( >
> but you ought to be able to find a dog training class at a dog club or
> night school that doesn't cost too much.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> (Maybe not. I don't know where you are.) Ask your veterinarian to
point
> you in the right direction,
Oh, you mean JUST LIKE HOWE you done, liea?:
"We got Cubbe in 1998. I immediately took her to a dog training
class that I guessed would be similar to the one Jim took Sheppe to.
Right from the start I was unhappy. I was following instructions to
the best of my ability, making no progress, and was pretty miserable.
I started posted here then. He Who Shall Not Be Named started
posting at the same time, and the group was in a stranglehold
while people dealt with that.
I finished that 6 week course and tried another. That one was at a
nearby community school. The teacher was better, more observent,
and still teaching leash pops. I wasn't willing to call them a bad
thing because they'd worked for Sheppe. I hadn't realized yet that
they weren't going to work for Cubbe.
"I was starting to realize that Cubbe's troubles getting along with
other dogs was going to prevent her from learning anything in group
cl*****. "
"They also suggested I ask my veterinarian for suggestions
for in-person training. I got in-person clicker training help
and started having fun with Cubbe practically overnight.
Cubbe and I both took to it."
"I think of the way Cubbe is so awful at the vet. It is embarrassing
to have to muzzle your dog, but from Cubbe's perspective, she's just
defending herself, and I've come to admire her for that. All she
knows is that woman is trying to hurt her, and she's taking reasonable
measures in defense. The bad news is that the vet re****ts no
improvement in her fear during the exam and shots.--Lia"
"Cubbe is highly sensitive. She knows she's going to be hurt and
wiggles and squirms and might bite if she weren't muzzled. we put
her through a number of tests for parasites and had to knock her out
to look into her ears. There's also the problem with looking at Cubbe's
teeth when she's not anesthetized. Jim and I can open her mouth with
no problem, but she's a wild woman at the vet.--Lia"
"Cubbe is a fear biter, but not, I think, an incorrigible one. She
needs a muzzle at the vet. I have to be super careful with her around
children. She's snapped at children (never breaking the skin). I
frequently have to tell kids that they can't pet my dog. (That's why
yesterday's story about her being subjected to a patting was a happy
unusual one.) She's always on a leash outside. We're managing the
situation and doing our best. She's also my dog, and I'm not about
to put her down for her crimes.
I'm guessing that the idiot whose dog attacked the kid feels the
same way about her dog as I feel about mine. I wouldn't say that
the situations are the same, though. What that dog did to that child
is on a whole 'nother scale. --Lia "
"I'm extra nervous because Cubbe is so fearful about being
cornered and of quick movements. I know Cubbe can snap
in fear. She's always had issues with cats and children that
weren't accurately represented on her intake sheet either.--Lia"
"I guess I should just learn from it and never let Cubbe
greet someone like that again, but I'm horribly torn up.
I've said that I would never keep an aggressive dog. Now
the whole issue is so complicated. Cubbe is great even with
kids when we meet them in the neighborhood."
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
> or see if there's a resource guide at the library.
liea means the same kinda RESOURCES she's used for Cubbe <{}: ~ ) >
> Since you don't have specific problems
Like leash pulling and not coming when called and hyperactivity.
> and just need general guidance,
For the sorts of PROBLEMS CAUSED BY choking dogs on leash.
> I'd say go to the library and look at the books they have there. There
are
> lots of methods to choose from. One will work.
Ahhhh, JUST LIKE HOWE they done for liea's fear
aggressive hyperactive escape artist Cubbe <{}: ~ ) >
> Be consistent.
Right. Cubbe has likeWIZE bitten her ignorameHOWES
boyfriend jim, her veterinary malpracticioner, attacked an
elderly dog on the street, three innocent children and her
ONLY real life in person friend.
> --Lia
liea is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin dog abusin punk
thug coward active accute chronic life long incurable malignant
maliciHOWES mental case who PREFERS to jerk choke shock
bribe crate intimdiate and surgically ***ually mutilate innocent
defenseless dumb critters an LIE abHOWET it.
LIKE THIS:
From: d0006...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Julia F N Altshuler)
Date: 8 Apr 2001 12:27:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost dog - Pointe-Claire, West Island of Montreal
I know this advice is late, and I hope it's not hurtful at this point,
but we got an electric fence Cubbe, and it's working great.
She used to escape the regular fence and cause us all the anxiety
you're currently going through. Every time we though we'd thought
of everything to make the fence secure, she'd find another way out.
The wire for the electric fence now goes up next to the real
fence so she gets zapped if she goes too near.
Now she can enjoy running around her yard but can't get close
enough to the fence to figure out a way under, over or through.
Best wishes. I really do know what you're going through.
--Lia, building good memories with Cubbe --"
LIKE THIS:
Julia F N Altshuler (d0006...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: 1 step forward, 2 steps back
Date: 2001-01-07 19:28:05 PST
Cubbe got out in the neighborhood leashless for the
first time in roughly 2 years. The first few times were
when we first got her before she'd had any training
and before we got the electric fence to reinforce the
physical one.
It was horrible. She paid us no attention, ignored
clickers and treats and calls. Make that, it was
horrible for us. She had a blast running free and
chasing whatever she wanted.
For us it was 45 minutes of sheer terror as we
tried to catch her.
Luckily there wasn't too much traffic yesterday
morning. It had snowed, and the streets weren't
quite clear yet. Jim finally caught her when she
was preoccupied with her head down a hole.
For 2 years I've been giving her a daily long walk in the
neighborhood. She now walks pretty nicely on a leash.
She gets daily indoor clicker training sessions.
She has perfect recalls in the house. She gets intermittent
treats for those recalls. She gets plenty of time to run free
in the backyard.
Her recalls are less reliable there, but I've been
working on them. I haven't been as good about
introducing the variable reinforcement there, but
I have been good about making sure that she's
never tricked into coming into the house when
she'd rather be outside. I always call her, give
her a treat or praise and let her go again.
So I haven't been a perfect dog trainer, but I don't
think I'm a terrible one. I say that because I'm about
to ask y'all for some help in correcting my mistakes,
and while I don't mind criticism for past mistakes, I
am hoping you'll concentrate on what I should do now.
Yesterday morning Cubbe had had some nice backyard
time. I'd gotten her into the house and was preparing to
leave when she escaped straight through the front door
and right in front of our noses.
She was still wearing the zap collar, but the
battery was low. She gave a small yip when
she went over the wire, and the chase ensued.
We were careful not to scold her once she was caught.
Today I let her out in the backyard with her usual zap
collar now with a fresh battery. She was waiting by the
backdoor to come in when I went to call her. From her
excited behavior, I could tell that she fully expected
to be let out the front door again so she could have
another fun romp in the neighborhood.
I'm so filled with anxiety from yesterday's
escapade that I keep checking for her every
time I open the door.
Later in the afternoon, she was much worse
about coming when called even from the backyard.
My specific questions:
How do I teach recalls when she so clearly knows
when she's in a confined space and when she isn't?
She normally only wears the zap collar when she's in the
backyard because the wire goes around the house and
could zap her when she's near certain windows inside.
If I let her get zapped at the front door with the zap collar,
can I still take the zap collar off and walk her out the front
door with her leash on?
I don't want her to become afraid of the front door.
What's the best emergency procedure if, god
forbid, it should happen again?
Might Cubbe be ready for harsher training techniques?
By this I mean, I've been using clicker and treats for
Cubbe because she so obviously freaked when we used
leash corrections and scoldings when we first got her.
I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll state
my opinion once and won't defend it further: any
method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for
Cubbe at the beginning, but we've come a long
way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?
Last night we had friends over for dinner with their
3 daughters ages 14, 10 and 7. The girls loved Cubbe
and were having a blast clicker training her.
I was impressed with how quickly they caught on and
how little correction they needed to be consistent
with the clicks and treats.
Cubbe was fine with the children; she always
has been. Just as they were getting ready to
go, the 10 year old went to give Cubbe a hug.
Cubbe must have felt threatened and confined
because she gave a snarl-snap.
I was right there, and without thinking I quickly yelled,
turned Cubbe over on her back, got in the face and let
her know that no snarling is allowed. The girl wasn't
frightened at all, and her parents who were also right
there hadn't realized what had happened. I then asked
the snarlee to rub Cubbe's belly further to reinforce
that Cubbe is the submissive one in that relation****p.
I let Cubbe up and all was fine.
I suppose that's another issue, but I bring it up as part
of wondering if Cubbe should be trained with punishments now.
Like I said, I did that without thinking, and now I think it
was the right thing to do. So how do I apply this to dealing
with Cubbe the escapee?
--Lia
===================
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
AND LIKE THIS:
"Okay, I'm dealing with Cubbe, but she doesn't get along with other
dogs, and I'm going to have to accept that. There isn't a day that
goes by when I don't wish I could let her run up to every dog on the
street like I used to with all my other dogs. I used to love taking
my other dogs to an off-leash park, but I can't do that with Cubbe."
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3DC4A3BD.645A4FC9@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I need help deciding if I have a real problem with
Cubbe that needs immediate attention or if I'm
imagining trouble where there is none.
Here's what happened last April the way I described
it to a friend at the time:
I'm worried about Cubbe. Or rather, I'm kicking
myself for doing something stupid. Ellie has been
over many times and has always gotten along great
with Cubbe. Cubbe is always at the door when I let
Ellie in.
She's barky-protective but then stops barking once
Ellie is inside. She's never shown any real
aggression. The other night Ellie and I went out
together to run an errand.
Ellie was coming in the house with packages so
I came in first and put Cubbe in the bedroom with
Jim so Ellie could get through the door more easily.
I could hear Cubbe barking. Once Ellie was inside,
I opened the bedroom door for Cubbe. She ran out
to attack the intruder.
Ellie was trying to be friendly.
Ellie put a tooth in Ellie's finger. Granted the resulting
scratch was no worse than the way my cuticles bleed
when they get dry and I don't rub lotion into them every
night, but Ellie was understandably scared.
Jim ran out and got control of Cubbe right away.
I got Ellie some alcohol and a bandage. The scary
thing is that, even though the damage is minor, it
does qualify as a bite since Cubbe did mean to do it.
I guess I should just learn from it and never let
Cubbe greet someone like that again, but I'm
horribly torn up.
I've said that I would never keep an aggressive
dog. Now the whole issue is so complicated.
Cubbe is great even with kids when we meet
them in the neighborhood.
Since then I've been careful not to do anything like that.
Then Halloween night Cubbe spent most of the
night in the computer room with Jim while I answered
the door. She did bark each time she heard the
doorbell ring. We did nothing to discourage that.
We want her to be barky protective so
it made sense for her to bark when she
heard people in the neighborhood, especially
at night. Later in the evening, Jim put Cubbe
on a leash and was hanging out with her in the
front hall while I still got the door. One of the first
people to come to the door once she was out of the
computer room was our neighbor Nicky.
I think Nicky is 11 now. He's known Cubbe since
we got her 4 years ago, has always liked her, petted
her and asked to come on walks. Nick lifted his mask
on the ****ch so I'd know who it was.
Then I invited him into the hall to pet Cubbe.
Cubbe snarled and sort of air snapped at him.
Of course Jim was right there so no damage was
done. Nick didn't even have to draw his hand away,
and he didn't get scared.
Nothing scares that boy.
I don't like this. Twice now Cubbe has been overly
protective-aggressive when people have entered the
house.
Both times they've been people she knows and
should like. She's wonderfully nice to people on
walks. We don't have guests over too often so
I can't comment if it's a growing thing or not.
Comments please. Is this a major growing
aggression problem?
I'd guess it's territoriality about the house and yard.
What do I do about it?
I usually put Cubbe on a leash when friends come over
and then walk her outside while the friend gets out of
her car, and then we walk in together.
She'll still bark when they're in the house and then
calm down. Is that a good idea? Should I be
doing something more to make sure this doesn't
escalate?
--Lia
----------------------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
AND LIKE THIS:
From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Cubbe re****t: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST
Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe. For a week he's been feeding me glowing
re****ts about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.
Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.
I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companion****p of her own
species. Jim's re****ts were encouraging.
Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory. They sniffed as dogs
normally do.
Chief and Cubbe entered the front door. To my
amazement, all was fine. Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.
Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
like SITs).
Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together. He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.
Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief. She's not an experienced
fighter so I don't know if attack is the right word. She
was snarfing, making growly noises, jumping on Chief,
had her mouth on Chief's neck (on his back, behind his
ears) and basically not looking friendly, but I think if she'd
wanted to do real damage, she would have, and Chief
was fine, nary a hair out of place.
Naturally with us all right there, we were able to
intervene in seconds.
A second later, it was all over. Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance.
Jo and Chief went home. (I went with them for chat and
apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe story.)
Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people.
Might she have been guarding the balls Jim brought
out? Or was it the fact that we let our guard down for
a few seconds and she got scared of Chief when we
all weren't practically on top of her?
Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a
few seconds would have been better for a first try?
Or other theories?
Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe? Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?
--Lia
===================
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
AND LIKE THIS:
Here's liea's latest encHOWENTER of her
dog Cubbe ATTACKIN innocent children:
HOWEDY liea you pathetic miserable stinkin
lyin animal abusin punk thug coward active
acute chronic life long incurable mental case,
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:QbKdnbim682xO6XbnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Suja wrote:
>> Same here.
Seems suja's had her share of FEAR AGGRESSIVE DOGS.
>> Someone at the dog park who has Basenjis was playing with one, and
>> accidentally got nailed on his hand.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM???
>> Since it was a puncture wound and bleeding profusely,
That's GOOD. Punctures seldom bleed
enough to prevent infection.
>> he went to the ER.
That's SHEER IDIOCY. All you gotta do with a dog
bite puncture wound is make it BLEED ALOT and
keep it CLEAN and OPEN to the air so's it'll heel.
The HOWEspitals like to bandage and stitch them,
which causes them to INFECT. And a tetnus shot
is IDOCY if the wound BLEEDS and is OPEN
as tetnus is a ANAROBIC DIS-EASE <{}: ~ ( >
>> He told them what happened, and they called animal control.
Naaaah?
>> He had to quarantine his own dog, although everyone knew full well that
>> this was just an accident,
That's ABSURD. Dogs DON'T BITE by ACCIDENT.
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.
ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
>> and the dog was certainly UTD on all his vaccines.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
Giving vaccinations accordin to current veterinary
malpractice guidelines may CAUSE dogs to have
NO IMMUNITY.
>> When the same thing happened to another friend,
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM???
>> he told the ER folks that he messed up while doing some work, and a
nail
>> got him. They knew it wasn't a nail that got him,
Yeah? Are they PSYCHICS?
>> but didn't say anything.
Oh, they was DEAF MUTES?
> I've recently changed my mind
That's a GOOD THING, liea. Your old mind was for ****.
Hey liea? Didn't you momma teach you to say
'HOWEDY!" when talkin to folks or was you
raised by a ignorameHOWES like yourself <{}: ~ ( >
"The fruit don't fall far from the fruitcake,"
The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{}: ~ ) >
> on the rightness or wrongness
Oooops! PERHAPS you shoulda kept that old mind, eh liea?
You KNOW you've ALWAYS HAD PROBLEMS knowin
RIGHT from WRONG. THAT'S HOWE COME you're a
MENTAL CASE, remember, liea?
> of these laws.
SomeWON should make a LAW protecting J.Q. Pubic
from viciHOWES lyin animal abusin ignoreameHOWESES
like yourself, liea <{}: ~ ( >
> I used to think that it was wrong for the Law (by Law I mean the folks
in
> the hospital ER, animal control, etc.) to punish a dog when person with
> the bite knew the dog had a rabies shot,
"PUNISH", liea? NO WON wants to PUNISH dogs
for biting. HOWEver, so long as you're MHOWENTING
your moral high horse, perhaps The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
*****, Birdy And Horsey Wizard will be a GENTLEMAN
an offer you a leg up, eh, liea?
> knew the bite was an accident,
There AIN'T NO SUCH THING
as a ACCIDENTAL bite, liea.
> and so on.
You're a dog abusin mental case, liea. What's your point?
> I could understand that a dog owner would lie
Naaaah?
> to protect his dog from the unfair punishment.
WHAAAT "PUNISHMENT", liea? You think bein
CONfined to a leash for ten days is PUNISHMENT?
Naaah. THAT AIN'T PUNISHMENT, liea. NOT
UNLESS you're jerkin an chokin IT on your PRONGED
SPIKED PINCH CHOKE collar.
> I've thought about it further and changed my mind.
You mean you changed your mind abHOWET
punishment, liea?
Or do you mean you changed your mind abHOWET
RIGHT an WRONG, liea? Sometimes it's difficult
for the SIMPLE Puppy Wizard to follow your
philosophical thinkin when you're up on your moral
high horse, like that talk abHOWET rape a while ago.
> If the punishment was something along the lines of "we have to put down
> (kill) any dog that bites
You mean like paul e. schone's RESCUE dog Muttley?
> even if you understand the cir***stances
You mean like the two occasions IN janet's OBEDIENCE
CLASS when paulie was INSTRUCTED to JERK an
CHOKE Muttley to TEACH IT RESPECT for his G-D
like AUTHORITY, and Muttley WENT INSANE with
FEAR, liea?
And like HOWE every time your own FEAR
AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe attacked he was
attackin someWON inside her SHOCK ZONE
or you was JERKIN an CHOKIN IT on your
PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE COLLAR
JUST LIKE HOWE paulie done when his
RESCUE dog Muttley GOT SCARED an
ATTACKED.
> and there's nothing you can do about it,"
Oh, you mean when dog lovers like yourselves finally
CONvince the legislatures that Pit Bull dogs are BAD?
> then sure it makes sense to lie to protect your dog.
Oh, you mean like when it's O.K. to STEAL a neighbor's
dog on accHOWENTA you don't like HOWE they're
keepin IT, liea, as booby maida and babbette haggerty
and judith althouse recommend us to do, liea?
> But a quarantine isn't a terrible punishment.
Naaah? Hey liea? It MIGHT be a TERRIBLE
PUNISHMENT if your dog ESCAPES your
SURRHOWEND SHOCK SYSTEM and
attacks a neighbor's kid, or worse, gets into
the yard with the Rottweiller and won't come
back to you again, eh, liea?
THEN the cops would SHOOT YOUR DOG for you
UNLESS diddler or lois edwards BEAT THEM TO
THE PUNCH, eh?
> It's 2 weeks of not going off the owner's property or not being off a
> leash.
There's no need for a dog to be off leash UNLESS,
like your own dog Cubbe, they got a HISTORY of
ESCAPIN your SHOCK CON-TRAINED HOWES.
> Cubbe got one.
Naaah? You never mentioned THAT when your
fear aggressive dog Cubbe ATTACKED your only
friend Ellie. In fact, you never mentioned she went
to the HOWEspital either, liea.
> I don't even think she broke the kid's skin and as far as I'm
concerned,
You mean you didn't LOOK, liea? What'd you do, run
HOWET on them like HOWE "news dog's" handler done?
> it was the kid's own fault.
But of curse, liea. What'd he do, stand in Cubbe's
SHOCK ZONE like them other two kids and your
only friend Ellie done?
> We'd said he could pet the dog
You mean your FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe, liea?
Hey liea? You remember when you first started
OBEDIENCE TRAININ IT, and IT began to
TURN ON YOU for HURTIN her on your
PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE COLLAR?
> and gave instructions on how to do so properly.
Oh, you mean to offer IT a cookie an let IT smell the
back of your hand, offered from UNDERNEATH,
like a CHIN CHUCK, so the dog don't think you're
fixin to STRIKE IT liea?
Perhaps you can EXXXPLAIN again HOWE a
CHIN CHUCK AIN'T HITTIN THE DOG, liea,
and HOWE IT IS that a dog bein CHIN CHUCKED
don't KNOW it's the lyin dog abusin mental case with
the HANDS who HIT HIM?
> The kid promptly disobeyed every instruction.
Oh, you mean he went up to IT an sez 'HOWEDY' an
SCARED your FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe?
> Cubbe got scared and gave a brief snap.
Naaah? She got a BAD HABIT of ATTACKIN
innocent defenseless critters, like that 12 year
old dog Chief, DHOWEN the street?
Hey liea? HOWE did you manage to get your neighbor
with the barkin Pit Bull to GET RID OF HER DOG?
Did you have to call animal CON-TROLL on her very
often?
> I'd have given the kid a kiss,
That'd be the kiss of death, eh, liea?
> a band-aid
You mean for the BITE he DIDN'T GET, liea?
> and lesson on listening to instructions,
You mean YOUR instructions, liea? Even a CHILD
knows you're a pathetic miserable stinkin lyin dog
an child abusin imbecile <{}: ~ ( >
> but the parents took him to the emergency room which got the Law
involved.
"I don't even think she broke the kid's skin".
Perhaps you're in DENIAL, eh, liea?
> At the time, we were terrified that Cubbe would be killed.
Seems it was YOU who WANTED TO KILL HER, liea.
> We were white with fear for every part of the process.
Well that's NORMAL for a NATURAL BORN COWARD.
NHOWE you know HOWE your neighbor with the Pit
Bull felt when YOU MADE HER GET RID OF HER
DOGS on accHOWENTA THEY SCARED YOU.
> That involved going to the hospital with her rabies certificate (they
> thanked us for being so prompt),
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!
> going to the police station for a dog-bite re****t
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!
> (the officer treated it like some stupid paperwork
Naaaah?
> and reassured us that we had nothing to worry about),
Yeah, it ain't HIS dog the Doggy Nazis will come after.
> letting the city's rabies inspector (the vet in town that we don't use)
> look at Cubbe (that's literally take her to his office where he looked
at
> her,
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
> didn't touch her,
Of curse not. She COULD BE INFECTED with RABIES.
> and humorously called her the troublemaker) twice, once right away and
> again 10 days later.
Oh THAT'S on accHOWENTA she's ALWAYS BEEN
UN-CON-TROLLABLE at the vets, REMEMBER, liea?
IN FACT, your own FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe
ATTACKED YOUR VETERINARIAN, remember
NHOWE, liea?
> During the 10 days she had to be on a leash when she left our property,
> something we do anyway.
Do you use a standard or CUSTOM MADE PRONGED
SPIKED PINCH CHOKE COLLAR, like janet SOLD
paulie an Muttley, liea?
> Like I said,
Not to be the grammar police, but it's like 'AS I SEZ', liea,
you pathetic university educaded IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >.
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> at the time we were railing against the stupid laws.
That so, liea?
> Thinking about it in retrospect,
You mean like HOWE when you think of as a
kid, goin to school in the little school bus, liea?
> I don't think the laws are overboard.
That's kindly of you, liea.
> I started to understand how serious rabies really is.
Rabies is only seriHOWES if you're a ignorameHOWES
an get yourself ATTACKED by a infected critter or pick
up sumpthin you shouldn't be touchin, liea.
> Sure it's unlikely that the kid was going to get rabies from that snap,
Your dog Cubbe MURDERS innocent defenseless
dumb wild critters, REMEMBER, liea?
> but given the fact that untreated rabies means DEATH, certain DEATH,
> certain horrible, preventable, DEATH, I relaxed my outrage.
Oh, so you let your FEAR CON-TROLL
your MIND, eh, liea?
> Yeah, we went to some trouble and some paperwork and a quarantine.
Yeah,
> I wish the kid's parents taught their kids some manners.
Oh? Did the kid BITE the DOG, liea?
> (It's gotten to where no one in the neighborhood wants anything to do
> with them.
That so? Does their ill mannered KID attack very
often, like HOWE YOUR OWN FEAR AGGRESSIVE
HOWETA CON-TROLL dog Cubbe has done ON
THREE OCCASIONS with people and WON with
your vet and at least WON with the old dog DHOWEN
the street, liea?
That's like FIVE BITES your own FEAR AGGRESSIVE
DOG Cubbe has done on INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
PEOPLE, not countin the DOG she attacked and probably
a few others you ain't mentioned.
BY ANY STANDARDS CUBBE SHOUL DIE.
UNLESS she's a POLICE DOG attackin HOODLUM KIDS
and a HOWEsbreaker personal friend and a HOWEstile vet.
Let's talk abHOWET the LAW in your
city regardin DOG BITES, liea?
> They're too out of control and spoiled, won't listen to anyone, goes
way
> beyond manners with dogs.)
Shameful, eh, liea?
> Now we tell kids and parents that we're sorry but that they can't pet
this
> dog.
You mean on accHOWENTA WON BAD APPLE
ruinin all the FUN for everyWON else, liea? That's
just what the Pit Bull people worry abHOWET, liea.
WON BAD EXXXAMPLE like Cubbe gettin their
fear aggressive Pit Bulls taken away from them by
the Doggy Nazis <{}: ~ ( >
> The other day I relaxed the rule
You mean you CHANGED YOUR MIND AGAIN, liea?
> and let the neighbors' kid (the neighbors I do like) pet Cubbe.
PERHAPS your FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe
ATTACKED the child on accHOWENTA she KNEW
you didn't LIKE him, liea?
> All went well.
You mean you GOT LUCKY, liea?
> I'd say it makes sense to the tell the folks in the emergency room the
> truth about injuries
Hey assHOWEL? Wouldn't it make MOORE sense
to TELL THE KID your dog ATTACKS CHILDREN?
> even where there's a beloved dog involved.
You mean a dog you'd have to MURDER on accHOWENTA IT
ATTACKS innocent defenseless dumb critters on accHOWENTA
you JERK an CHOKE IT on your PRONGED SPIKED PINCH
CHOKE COLLAR an SHOCK IT, liea?
------------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:Eb-dncGLCvD4iDjanZ2dnUVZ_r-vn...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Finn wrote:
>> We have a 7.5 month old Eurasier (male, now neutered) who has become
very
>> aggressive toward me (his primary caregiver). His attacks started with
>> biting my feet right after he was fed and are now not limited to that.
He
>> was diagnosed by a veterinary behaviorist as having anxiety and
attention
>> deficit with impulsivity and is now taking Prozac. Unfortunately, while
>> things improved for a short time, they are now worse and we are at our
>> wits end as we love him so much but he is dangerous to live with.
Please
>> send any information or advice you have as it relates to the Eurasier
>> breed and how we might handle this.
>> Kind regards.
> I'd never heard of the Eurasier breed before your post.
That's on accHOWENTA they're a DESIGNER breed
only recently accepted into the A.K.C. etc <{}: ~ ) >
UTILIZATION: Companion Dog
CLASSIFICATION F.C.I.: Group 5: Spitz and Primitive Types.
Group 5: Asiatic Spitz and related breeds.
Without Working Trial.
> I've now looked at a picture and know nothing more.
They're part CHOWE, like your own dog Cubbe
who GOT THE SAME PROBLEM.
> My comments, therefore, are general.
INDEED?
> You're asking for advice and information from a bunch of people who have
> never met you, never met your dog,
That's true <{}: ~ ) >
IN FACT, that's TRUE of ALL The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Grand, Puppy, Child,
*****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And
Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER the
WHOWEL WILD WORLD who RE****T their 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS right
here on The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing, Grand, Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret,
Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual Forums
And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory Archives <{}: ~ ) >
HOWEver, some posters here might have a AGENDA <{}: ~ ( >
> never seen in person the behaviors you're describing.
That ain't true, liea. You've seen this behavior in your own dog.
> Giving advice about "biting" and "dangerous to live with" would be
stupid
> under those cir***stances.
You mean "ADVICE" LIKE THIS?:
"Cubbe Got Out In The Neighborhood Leashless: It Was
Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With Her Usual
ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To Give Cubbe
A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap. I don't even think she broke
the kid's skin and as far as I'm concerned, it was the kid's own
fault. Jim ran out and got control of Cubbe right away. I got
Ellie some alcohol and a bandage.
The scary thing is <SNIP IDIOCY and ABUSE>
> He's only 7.5 months old, so my first guess would be that the bites were
> normal untrained puppy behavior
Yeah, Vs fear aggression like your own dog got, eh, liea?
> and that he needs obedience training, but a veterinary behaviorist who
has
> met your dog has said otherwise.
THAT was on accHOWENTA the veterinary behaviorist
AIN'T GOT NO METHOD to train this dog not to do that.
> I'd say either to go with the advice given by the expert who has seen
your
> dog, or tell us why you don't trust that advice.
Oh, THAT'S EZ, liea: "Unfortunately, while things improved
for a short time, they are now worse and we are at our wits end
as we love him so much but he is dangerous to live with."
Does that give you a glimmer of a IDEA, liea?
> If you don't care for the advice of one expert, get another expert.
Like HOWE you done with your own
fear aggressive hyperactive dog Cubbe?
> Prozac is something that does help some dogs under some cir***stances,
Perhaps liea would like to CITE a few cases?
> but really, "attacks" are a problem that can't be helped on usenet.
That's INSANE, liea.
> --Lia
Hey liea? Remember when you used to post daily
and weekly WARNINGS to KILLFILE the only
poster who knows HOWE to TRAIN ALL dogs
and ALL BEHAVIORS NEARLY INSTANTLY
simply by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin mental
cases been doin it, liea?:
163 for author:jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"occasional post"
OT: occasional post-Broken rib-DOGS DON'T WORK CREDIT
.... I try to notify each new person who posts with the
following "occasional post" to help new people learn
to killfile faster and to waste less time in public argument.
I hope the following helps. ...
Jun 17 2002 by Julia Altshuler - 15 messages - 9 authors
OT: occasional post-this newsgroup-I'm outa here
And if you blocked the arguing, you'd see only a nice
helpful friendly group. Not only that, if you didn't post
messages like the one you just did, you wouldn't be
adding to the problem. --
Lia ...
Mar 12 2003 by Julia Altshuler - 55 messages - 20 authors
OT: occasional post-4 month old puppy still pees in her
box...help ...
I post this informational message occasionally. I try
to post it in answer to first posts by people who might
not be familiar with this newsgroup or anywhere else
it might be useful. This is rec.pets.dogs.behavior (rpdb). ..
Apr 25 2002 by Julia Altshuler - 14 messages - 5 authors
OT: occasional post-this newsgroup-Barking. Help please
John, Please don't answer him or copy his messages.
The rest of us have him killfiled and wouldn't know he
was there if you didn't.
Here's the canned message with more information: This message ...
Mar 14 2003 by Julia Altshuler - 10 messages - 7 authors
---------------------------
BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!
From: abadabracadab...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(ABADABRACADABRAH)
Date: 17 Aug 2004 15:54:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Eggplant ! Eggplant! []
> Subject: Eggplant ! Eggplant! [] From: Julia Altshuler
> jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 8/17/04 11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> Please, folks. Remember to label your posts when you're arguing with
> trolls. So many threads are troll arguments these days that I can't
keep
> track of which ones to delete without reading. We either do or do not
> have new annoyances.
> Either way, label them with the [eggplant] tag. I'm quick to killfile
> everybody.
You're INSANE, liea.
>--Lia
HOWEDY liea,
> Subject: Re: house training problem [ninnyboy] Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004
> 15:57:02 GMT The dog groups have a newsgroup nut
You shock and jerk and choked your dog Cubbe till
she ATTACKED your only friend and tied to attack
a couple kids and did attack your neighbor's old
dog.
> who yells at everyone and never goes away.
You're a lying dog abusing MENTAL CASE, liea.
> Just ignore him, or put him in your killfile.
Perhaps you should bring back your occasional
daily and weekly warnings?
> That's what everyone else does.
That so? HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard is the most pupular topic in the Whole
Wild World amongst dog lovers?
> Whatever you do, don't copy his messages.
You're a paranoid mental case, liea.
> That's a lot of bandwidth.
You're a DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, liea.
>--Lia
135 results for insubject: occasional post
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 03:46:53 GMT
Subject: OT: occasional post-this newsgroup
He *is* nuts. Don't answer him.
--Lia
This message is posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior (r.p.d.b.)
regularly and occasionally to other newsgroups including
alt.animals.dog, rec.pets.dogs.rescue, alt.pets.dog, and
rec.pets.dogs.misc. These are unmoderated groups meaning
that no one checks the messages to make sure they're on-
topic, civil or sensible before they go through.
The purpose of this occasional posting is to give information
about the newsgroup so that discussion about the newsgroup
itself is cut down and discussion about dogs increases.
Like so many usenet groups, this group has people who
post annoyingly and constantly, people who post angry
and abusive messages, people who post to irritate others.
It's up to individuals to decide which posters bother them.
Here are some guidelines that many people follow to
make this newsgroup pleasant and informative:
1. Use your killfile. A killfile (or filter) makes invisible
posts by any particular person or with any particular words
in the subject line.
The posts are still there, but they don't show up on the
screen of the person using the killfile. Look at
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
for instructions.
2. Don't make more noise. The only thing more annoying
than a troll is an otherwise rational person arguing with or
about a troll.
That's known as feeding the trolls. Please don't feed the
trolls. It really is insane to attempt rational discussion with
the insane.
3. Want to exercise your right to free speech and argue
about or with trolls anyway? Put "ninnyboy" in the
subject line. That way the people who want to join the
fracas can, and those who don't can opt out by killfiling
"ninnyboy." If you don't do this, expect to be killfiled
yourself. [Jerry], with the brackets is also a recognized
signal.
4. Figured out that arguing with trolls is useless but
still want to talk about trolls by referring to them in
the third person? Put "ninnyboy" in the subject line
then too. That subject is boring too.
5. Trim quoted posts to include only the part you're
responding to. Quoting an entire long post in order to
respond to only a small piece of it is annoying. Again,
if you don't do this, expect to be killfiled.
6. Understand Candace. Candace is an automatic
program that answers troll posts automatically,
repetititively and relentlessly.
Most of us find these posts boring after a
short while and killfile it too.
That's O.K. You can't hurt its feelings.
7. Show no fear. Have a question or need to admit that
you've made errors in dog training in the past? This is
still a good place to come for (often contradictory) advice.
Use your own judgment to decide what advice to follow
and what not to. No harm can come to you even if people
vehemently disagree, call you names or repost your old
messages.
8. Label off-topic threads as "OT." A label helps people
decide what to read and what not to.
9. Check the F.A.Q. for answers to frequent non-
complicated questions.
10. Don't post pictures. This is not a binary newsgroup.
That's plain text only, no HTML, no attachments. If you'd
like, post a pointer to a website with pictures on it.
11. Don't crosspost. It's bad enough when someone posts
something dog related to all the groups having to do with
dogs. It's worse when totally unrelated groups get tossed
in the mix. Feel like you absolutely have to jump in on
something that's been crossposted to unrelated groups?
Erase the extraneous ones when you answer.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:53:18 GMT
Subject: OT - Should I bring back the occasional post?
The subject line says it all.
When I started posting the occasional post, the idea
was to help new people understand what's going on with
the annoyances on this newsgroup
I wanted to help them understand that anything they had
to say on the subject had been said before, wouldn't do
any long term good and would bore a bunch of people in
the short term. I stopped because I wasn't sure I was
accompli****ng my goal. Now I'm not so sure. I'm seeing
so many unmarked arguments with the annoyances.
Any opinions?
I'm not taking a vote, but I do care what the regulars think.
For new people, the occasional post is as follows. Do you
think that seeing it when you first started posting would
have helped?
Would it be more useful if it weren't so precise and wordy?
Maybe something shorter? I'm thinking it needs an update.
--Lia
-------------
SEE?
We'll just put this in Phil's retention enema bag...
|
