HOWEDY Brian,
"BDKesling" <BDKesling.2855ba8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:BDKesling.2855ba8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
*****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method
Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory.
I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research <{}: ~ ) >
I've got more than forty years professional EXXXPERIENCE
raising and training giant breed working dogs, Great Danes
and English Mastiffs, among others, and SPECIALIZING
in temperament and behavior problems and protection training
in ALL breeds <{}: ~ ) >
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}': ~ ) >
> Hi, I found the forum while looking for aggression
> training help on the internet.
ALL aggression is FEAR. ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
ONLY LIARS, DOG ABUSERS, COWARDS, and ACTIVE
ACUTE CHRONIC LIFE-LONG INCURABLE MALIGNANT
MaliciHOWES MENTAL CASES post their LIES ABUSE
IDIOCY and INSANITY here abHOWETS <{}: ~ ( >
> My wife and I have two kids (14 years, and 9 months),
ONLY PARENTS FEAR AND HATE The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy,
Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard more than the professional dog abusers and university trained
behaviorists whom HE has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED an
DISCREDITED BY NAME based on their own written words and
the RESULT of their backwards, barbaric, archaic, ineffective, slovenly,
HOWEtdated methods <{}: ~ ) >
As these pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin
punk thug cowards and mental cases reply to your post I'll respond
with their own POSTED CASE HISTORIES of lies, abuses, dismal
failures, and mental heelth case histories.
Here's the SCIENCE they FEAR:
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov .
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.
"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.
B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:
If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.
People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.
The need for punishment seems to have the sup****t
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.
Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of positive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.
----------------------------
A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!
The Embry Study:
"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.
Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason
with their children about da****ng into the street will
likely to have the opposite impact.
Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward it."
Source:
"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Re****t
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov:
"Motivation Of The Resistance To Coercion "-- PAVLOV
"Reflexes of purpose and freedom" in the comparative
physiology of higher nervous activity, Institute of Higher
Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology, Academy of Sciences,
Moscow:
The most complex unconditioned "reflexes of aim and
freedom," discovered by I.P. Pavlov, are compared
with the "competence drive" and the "motivation of the
resistance to coercion," respectively, described by
contem****ary ethologists.
On the basis of the unconditioned "reflex of purpose,"
conditioned reflexes were developed in which positive
emotions arising in connection with the perfection of a
skill, irrespective of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement.
The unconditioned "reflex of freedom" is regarded as a
phylogenetic precursor of the will, and its acute extinction
as the physiological mechanism of hypnosis. It was
demonstrated experimentally that the appearance of the
state of "animal hypnosis" (immobilization catatonia) in
rabbits is accompanied by the predominance of electrical
activity and heat production in the right hemisphere, i.e.,
by symptoms which are found in hypnosis in man.
Simonov PV</h4>
Publication Types:<ul><li>Review</li><li>Review,
tutorial</li></ul>PMID: 2215892, UI: 91015681</blockquote>
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
<transitional//en">
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=2215892&am
p;form=6&amp;db=m&amp;
Dopt=bNeurosciBehavPhysiol1990May-Jun;20(3):230-5
-----------------------
Professional trainer and author LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
Thanks, Jerry, that's a helpful bit from the guy
who started it all. This shows what we've been
saying: that teaching the dog to play fetch,
regardless of its usefulness in the eventual
search part of the training program, is a
powerful motivator and reinforcer.
Of course these idiots (pardon my being blunt)
don't see using food and clickers as being a
form of coercion. Maybe they've been hypnotized
by Karen Pryor, et al.
----------------------
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) re****t a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are re****ted to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated.
Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists."
Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of
programmed systems for learning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST
SURELY DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers."
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).
Some clinics have re****ted ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental
HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents tem****arily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
Freeze Frame <{}: ~ ) >
Canis55 and Marilyn are professional trainers, Marilyn had
thirty three years EXXXPERIENCE at the time of post:
From: canis55 <cani...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 1999/09/28
Subject: Dear Marilyn Re. Ness
Dear Marilyn,
I just visited your updated site. The two Ness pages are great.
Freezing the video frames to reveal the emotional impact a
leash correction has on a dog was a wonderful idea.
Lee Kelley did something similar to a Brian Kilcommon video.
The difference is we were focusing on the emotional impact a
leash correction has on the trainer. When you do this to a training
video you can clearly see the tremendous emotional charge some
of these trainers are getting from hurting dogs.
It's a strange business, this dog training. I wonder what motivates
any of us to engage in it. I'm suspicious of anyone who says they
do it because they love dogs. I know a lot of people who claim to
love what dogs represent to them, and yet they don't become trainers.
I don't think this is because they love something else more.
I think there is a difference between loving what dogs represent
to us and loving what training them creates in us or even creates
in them for that matter.
It's a complicated process and perhaps many of us have lost sight
of what we're doing. I read books and articles that matter of factly
explain how to systematically inflict pain on dogs in an effort to
create a desire to perform tasks that I often see dogs performing of
their own accord. I know many of these behaviors can be shaped
and encouraged to the same degree of reliability without all the
violence and pain.
Where they can't (if that's the case), I wonder why we think
a dog should perform a task that is so repugnant to its nature,
that we must resort to violence and coercion to compel them
to participate.
Maybe I have far too much respect for dogs, but when I read
this stuff it sounds like slavery and involuntary servitude to me.
I can't see much difference between what we're doing to them
(for their own good) and what my country men did to the African
peoples for nearly half a century.
It's hard for me to accept that I'm surrounded by so much
madness, but I have to go with my heart on this one. Most
of what we demand from dogs--if not all of it--will be offered
willingly and enthusiastically if we only learn how to request
it in a manner they can comprehend.
If it turns out that I have to attack a dog to get it to do or to not
do something, then maybe the dog isn't supposed to do what I
think it should.
The whole thing's so complicated that I can't really express it. I
just know I don't like some of the stuff I'm seeing or reading about.
--
I trains'em as I sees'em.
----------------
Professional trainer and author LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
From: "LeeCharlesKelley" <kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:02:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Your Training Modality is Driving Your Dogs Crazy
Leah:
>>Is there something wrong with being curious?
Morrison:
> You're not curious, Leah. IMO, you're just wishy-washy.
Kelley: I don't have the same history that you seem to have with Leah,
but I hardly think being open to exploring new ideas qualifies as being
"wishy-washy". To me it shows intelligence. But then, from what I've
seen, you've demonstrated a singular kind of black-and-white mentality
and a highly ignorant closed-mindedness.
Morrison:
> You keep thinking that there's some "new" method out there
> that will VOILA!, magically transform you into a great trainer,
> and overnight, too.
>
> It just doesn't work that way.
Kelley: Actually, that's *exactly* how it worked with me. Within the
first day of using these techniques I went from becoming a run-of-the-
mill dog trainer to being pretty damn good, if I do say so myself, and
all simply by testing the techniques, just to see if they worked.
I've said from the beginning that if I can get the kind of amazing
results I do when I'm not really a dog trainer at heart, but a writer,
then someone who's really a dog trainer at heart would become a
far better trainer than I am instantly, just by using these methods.
Somewhere along the line, however, I discovered a dirty little secret
about the mentality of most dog trainers: they only *became* trainers
because they liked the feeling of power and control it gave them. If
that's the case with you, then you definitely wouldn't like natural dog
training because it ultimately teaches a dog how to control his own
behavior.
In fact in some ways, it forces you to turn your need for control over
to the dog because the method only works when you put your trust
in a dog's natural instincts instead of fighting against them all the
time.
That's because when you put yourself in alignment with a dog's instincts,
the dog will naturally obey you under any and all cir***stances because
group harmony and cooperation, when properly nurtured, are the most
fundamental aspects of a dog's nature.
I came across the following quote recently, and though I have no idea
who Edward Hoagland is, I think what he says here speaks volumes:
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be
semi-human.
The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of
becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland
Leah:
>> This "praise the dog when he misbehaves" thing keeps
>> coming up, and nobody has been able to explain it to me.
Morrison:
>That's because no one can.
Actually, Jerry Howe explains it pretty well. And as for the incident I
related where I praised my dog when he found a juicy chicken breast
and my praise caused him to drop it, and subsequently got him to stop
scavenging altogether, merely by praising him everytime he found
something, the answer is pretty clear.
He didn't pick up that chicken breast because he was hungry, he did
it because he was looking for something to do that would satisfy an
inner emotional need, relating to his instincts. When I praised him,
suddenly and very enthusiastically, he dropped the chicken breast
because the praise provided him with more emotional satisfaction
than the chicken breast did at that particular moment.
You could look at this as being an example of pure operant
conditioning, if you like (though you'd be wrong), but it would
still mean that you would have to give up your beliefs about
what praise is and how and why it works, and you don't
strike me as someone who's capable of even *questioning*
your beliefs, let alone capable of giving them up.
Morrison:
> every single method out there is based on CC and/or OC.
> That's a fact.
Kelley: No, it's not a fact. The only reason it seems factual to you is
because the basic premise of behavioral science is tautological in nature
(and also because, IMO, you have a tiny mind). In my estimation it's
more likely that there are little green men on Mars than that what you
think is operant conditioning is what's really taking place when a dog
learns *anything*.
Dogs do not learn things by association or by repetition or by trial
and error, but through their emotions, pure and simple. Even
Pavlov said: "Positive emotions arising in connection with the
perfection of a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic significance at
a given moment, serve as the reinforcement."
Of course, even Pavlov got it wrong on the most basic level, since
there really is no such thing as a reinforcement, but that's another
story for another day.
------------------------
> two dogs, and a cat.
Ahhh, dogs an kats go together like a child an paddle <{}: ~ ) >
> All the animals were strays or adopted from a shelter.
Good for you.
> Our older dog is a complete mix, I have no idea what breeds
> may have contributed to him.
"BREED" is a doggy racist term which leads dog lovers
to racist, breed specific legislation and media hysteria.
In other words, Dear FellHOWE Animal Lovers:
A DOG Is A DOG;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A GOAT Is A GOAT;
As A FERRET Is A FERRET;
As A MONKEY Is A MONKEY:
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Cir***stances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
ALL dogs and ALL temperament and behavior problems can
be quickly and EZily trained / rehabilitated for ALL handlers
NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOING EVERY THING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE professional
dog trainers and university trained behaviorists recommend.
From: George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Proposed article for Wikipedia
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006
The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the cognomen of a dog behaviorist,
Jerry Howe, of Orlando, Fl. Howe's primary teaching is that
dogs deserve unconditional love, respect, and attention and
that by providing these emotional needs dogs will regulate
their own behavior.
Howe is bombastically antagonistic to rewarders, but he
is aggressively hostile to punishers - he refers antagonists
to B.F. Skinner, Mary Cover Jones, and J.B. Watson and
especially to Samuel A. Corson when they mistakenly
annunciate behavioral principles to sup****t their use of
punishment.
Punishment always deranges behavior, says Skinner,
Jones, Watson, Corson and Jerry Howe!
Howe developed a sonic device which calms dogs and has
been broadly tested in a wide range of different situations.
The present author is a Who's Who recognized psychologist
who was asked to evaluate Howe's device by a former student.
Howe provided the author with a device, without
charge, and said device worked as re****ted.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cross reference to Jerry Howe, etc.
Jerry, the difficulty with these ignorant dog molesters
is that they cannot read. Negative reinforcement is no
response by the trainer.
There is positive reinforcement, an action which is followed
by an increase in the targetted behavior (usually called
"reward" which is precisely and technically a misnomer),
negative reinforcement is the absence of any response.
Negative means 'No'.
Skinner's last book, "***ULATIVE RECORD" reviews this
thoroughly. http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html
Negative reinforcement is stopping an aversive reinforcement
according to this author. Read it, they have a sense of humor!
There are four forms of systematic reinforcement:
do nothing (negative reinforcement)
reward the behavior (positive reinforcement)
punish the behavior (aversive reinforcement)
after habituating the subject to punishment,
stop puni****ng (relief of aversion, which is negative reinforcement).
Logically, failing to reward after habituating a reward
is also negative reinforcement. Actually intermittent
rewards work better than consistent, invariable rewards,
so there is actually another two categories. Invariable
reinforcement and random reinforcement (on varying schedules).
Punishment is AVERSIVE REINFORCEMENT.
Actions which cause the animal being trained to avoid,
avert, cringe away from. Pavlovians always responded
to American psychologist's inability to reproduce Pavlov's
results with dogs with the comment, "American's don't LOVE
their dogs". If you ever observed a Russian psychologist
working with a dog, you'd instantly see the difference.
American psychologists were wooden, robot-like,
wanted to be "scientific".
This meant to them that they should display no
affection, or any other emotion with the subjects.
When a Pavlovian dog started to misbehave or fail to respond,
doggie was taken out of the equipment, and taken home for a
loving vacation, with much TLC. Sam Corson, Pavlov's last
student, demonstrated the same relation****ps at Ohio State.
Interestingly the first page of results for Sam Corson,
dog behaviorist is loaded with Jerry Howe quoting Dr. Von.
heh heh heh
Dr. Von
Oh, by the way, you once had a pompous fellow say that
Dr. Von was a figment of your imagination. I don't
normally mention this, but I have been listed in Who's
Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big books,
Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in Medicine
etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date.
These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and
you can't get yourself into them.
GvH
--------------------
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well do***ented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
> We've had him since he was a puppy. Graydon was very high
> energy as a pup, but has settled as he's aged. He's about 9 years old.
You mean he was HYPERACTIVE from repression of his
normal natural innate reflexive instinctive behaviors <{}: ~ ( >
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice
Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.
I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:
whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.
The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine
> Our other dog is the problem.
No. Dogs DO NOT have behavior problems. ALL behavior problems
are NORMAL NATURAL INNATE REFLEXIVE INSTINCTIVE
responses to HUMAN repression.
> We got Greta in 2001. She was about 2 years old at the time.
> She was a stray, was emaciated, and was very shy. We had
> a fenced yard, and I lured her in with a turkey leg. After a
> month of daily feedings, I was able to pet her
That should have taken just a couple of days, maybe a week, at most;
HOWEver, your bribery interfered with her rehabilitation. Dogs are
SCAVENGERS. They STEAL scraps of food and run to hide to eat
them with their back to the wall in a heightened state of alert.
Offering food bribes to fearful dogs increases suspiciHOWEN
and makes them more AGGRESSIVE and FEARFUL:
From: Eric
To: jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in...
Jerry!
You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago regarding
submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you know he's doing
great- he was "cured" in about 2 days using your techniques!
He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"! Once I
stopped thinking like a human and got inside his head, I can
teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter of minutes.
Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.
I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed 'em,
and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside their heads
and teach them to teach themselves how to be good dogs!
Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...
Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned from
you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather than
beating a$$ or pinching, or any of that nonsense. I know damn
well I would NOT be loyal to someone who beat MY a$$lol!
Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes out
there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs. A
horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horseman****p". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....
Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!
Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard
--------------------
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: hi
Hi Jerry,
Starr says hi, she's enjoying new freedom, iv been
working her off lead in my yard she comes every time.
She got a little spooked today I don't really know why
but she wanted to go inside, anyway when I asked her
to come her attitude changed as she took up her
position in front of me. Then she was easy to get
under control.
Oh and with winter we're having let me tell you its
great to have a dog that doesn't pull on the lead
anymore. With all this ice id hate being dragged
around.
Oh and i meant to tell you and never got around to it,
i was able to rescue a lost, fear/agressive dog from
running all over the street using the methods which
are now almost second nature to me.
with body language, praise and distraction i got a
dog that i thought might try to bite me sitting happily
at my side and wanting to be pet and played with
while we waited for the dog officer to take him to
the shelter so it all worked out well:-)
bye bye for now, crystal
--------------------------------------------
Crystal has been professionally training dogs
since studying her FREE copy of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and works at the shelter, as does Nevyn:
Date: 2003-07-06 11:35:40 PST
HOWEDY Nevyn!
"Nevyn" <ne...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:537b0789.0307060413.75e5c576@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Hi Jerry
> Can you give me some tips of calming fear aggressive
> and abused dogs?
For SHORE!
> and any training tips to turn them back into companions?
It's all in WON day's work, Nevyn.
> They try to kill anyone who approaches them.
SHOWENDS like The Puppy Wizard's kinda dogs.
> They gotta be fed with a bucket on a stick lol.
INDEED?
A very interesting problem. Not for nuthin, but what
happened to their handler, just HOWETA curiHOWEsity?
This is gonna be an exciting challenge.
> Nevyn
First, run your Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster
Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) Machine nearby. If there's
no electricity, get a 12V car or motorcycle battery and cut the
trainsformer off and hot wire it to the battery. Wrap them in
plastic to protect them from moisture. Set the DDR to 8 X D.
Restart the unit and operate it for fifteen minutes at a time,
shutting it off momentarily before restarting it during the times
you're approaching and working with them, as the first fifteen
minutes cycles differently than the full WON HOWER program.
If possible, discontinue any other human contact except by you
ONLY, during the training and feeding times. Discontinue feeding
them in a bucket at the end of the stick.
Use your voice the entire time you're nearby, just to get
them used to it. At feeding time DO NOT offer them food,
as that will create food aggression / fight / flight response.
Praise each eye contact, move, or thought, in your direction,
even if it's aggressive, much as in the Hot & Cold Exercise,
talking gently and constantly abHOWET nuthin in particular,
avoiding all but very brief eye contact.
After a short while, use the distraction and praise techniques
using the minimum amHOWENT of sound, BEING CERTAIN
to always alternate the direction the sound originates from, for
every instance, day in and day HOWET, to break any aggressive
barking or shyness.
BE SNEAKY abHOWET feedin them.
GO AWAY and return with their breakfast but DO NOT OFFER
it to them. Take their chow and sit safely HOWETA range.
APPEAR to indulge in YOUR breakfast, making NO eye
contact with them, making slurping sHOWEnds as though
you are reli****ngYOUR breakfast. Make a PIG HOWETA
yourself, giving them furtive, sideways glances, as you swill
DHOWEN "your" chow.
After a reasonable amHOWENT of time, THROW their
grub to them and skeedadle the heel HOWETA there
praising them as you turn to leave, so they may eat in
peace and not feel threatened by your presents or presence.
Break their grub in to several small servings so you can repeat
this process four times a day, if possible. After four days,
they'll know you as someWON to look forward to see, comin
and goin.
NHOWE comes the tricky part. You're gonna haveta
get them off the chain, as the chain is likely to be their
most overstimulating factor, as in "chained dog syndrome."
If you cross that boundary, you're history.
If you've got a rabies pole, that'll be the safest way to
collect them. Starting with the most friendly of the two,
you'll have to noose them as they're goin for the grub
you've just thrown. Put the loop of the noose on the
grHOWEND just inside their perimeter.
You'll have to be a marksman, as you want them to be
at but not pulling on the end of their chain, as any contact
on their collars will trigger them.
If you've got a partner to distract them from hurtin you,
that may be REAL heelpful.
GENTLY keep them at a distance while they chow dHOWEN
and soon as there's NO MOORE FOOD, make your move to
snatch him up. Be very careful not to apply the noose too
tightly as that'll trigger them or too loosely cause when you
get them off the chain they'll slip HOWET and trigger YOU.
If you don't have a rabies pole, use a heavy duty six foot
leather lead with the runnin end through the handle and
lasso him and snag him up GENTLY, keepin him at arm's
length.
Release the chain and immediately GET HIM THE HEEL
HOWETA HIS TERRITORY. AbHOWET ten feed ought do
it. If you can get him to move further, that's better. We don't
want anything familiar to give him confidence in his ability
to access his safety zone.
THEN, come to a halt and do the Hot & Cold Exercise till
they've settled and then proceed into the Family Pack
Leader****p Exercise and install the come command... and
you got yourself a new partner...
If you have any difficulty or questions, feel FREE to ask
Your Puppy Wizard.
Your Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ ) >
Oh, bye the bye? The Puppy Wizard got WON question.
HOWE COME you didn't pose this question to HOWER
shelter / rescue EXXXPERT lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
Might that be on accHOWENT of SHE PRHOWEDLY
MURDERS dogs like these?
BEWWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
-----------------------------
Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:33 PM
HOWERDY Group,
Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using JERRYS MANUAL
1) My dogz, two *****es - Vicious, barking, agressive, pulled
on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought between
each other.
TWO WEEKS using Jerrys manual, they were calm, friends,
my companions.
2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the girls
had -NO PROBLEMS-with him from the moment I dropped him
by their noses.
3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping at the
fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRYS MANUAL
they were CALMED AND HAVENT BARKED ONCE!
Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND WELCOMED HIM
WITH NO WUCKAS !
4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH - lock
him in a box?
NO!
USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE !
5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT - HAD TO BE
FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK - ONE WEEK ON JERRYS
MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE
PUBLIC KENNELS FOR SALE !Quite amazing to - I thought they
were just dull coloured dogs, but after I had removed the fear and
anxiety their hairs coloured up amazingly.
6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER BALL! She
carried it around all day and night - 3 DAYS on jerrys MANUAL
and she now DROPS it when u ASK her to!
BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!
Nevyn
-----------------
> and we took her to a vet to get shots and to get fixed.
There's NO rational justification for surgical ***ual mutilation:
HERE'S THE SCIENCE, Brian:
Subject: The Long-term Heath Impacts of S/N in Dogs
Session I: Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering
Proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Non-Surgical
Contraceptive Methods for Pet Population Control . www.acc-d.org
The effects of castration on behavior, particularly aggressive behavior,
were clearly questioned, indicating a need for further studies.
Dr. Verstegen-Onclin presented preliminary data concerning the
possible relation between early spaying and abnormal external
genital development leading to chronic vestibule-vaginal infection
and UTI. Since early-age spaying is a relatively recent approach to
population control in carnivores, long-term data are unavailable and
recent data are now slowly ac***ulating, allowing detection of side
effects not observed or not taken into consideration in the previously
published studies. Even if preliminary, these observations present new
questions and deserve further investigation.
Dr. Reichler summarized the results ac***ulated over 10 years in
her laboratory showing the relation between spaying and urinary
incontinence, a common side effect with poorly understood pathogeny
in the spayed dog. Directly or indirectly, through GnRH and the
gonadotrophins, acting at the periphery or centrally, the reproductive
axis seems to be involved in the regulation of continence.
Dr. Spain, who has been recently involved in many studies *****sing
the long-term risks and benefits of early-age neutering, presented
convincing data about the effects of spay/neuter on hip dysplasia,
cranial cruciate ligament rupture, long bone development, body
weight, diabetes, urinary tract infections, mammary cancer, and
several other conditions.
Looking for alternatives, we have been too often caught up by insisting
on an ideal drug or technique that would be without side effects, bias or
pitfalls. In reality, there is not likely to be one "magic treatment"
that
can instantly, inexpensively and permanently sterilize a male or female
cat or dog with no risk of undesired effects.
At this stage, spay/neuter still remains the only acceptable standard to
control population in dogs and cats, but this "gold standard" is probably
not as efficacious, safe or devoid of side effects as generally
considered.
The presence of unwanted side effects or problems related to surgical
spay/neuter allows us to compare the value of this reference and to
consider the development of new alternatives with more realism.
Unlike what you will find in Spay/Neuter Fact Sheets, the health
impacts of spay/neuter that are discussed in this paper are all backed
up with citations to the veterinary medical literature. You can find
the paper here:
http://escregistry.kattare.com/healthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
http://www.neutering.org
Material that includes research data from 2006, 2005 was
presented at ACC&D's Third International Symposium, and
part of the slideshows presentedare available here:
http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/Session%20I.pdf
Issues regarding previous assumptions on what neutering
does as a 'benefit' are pretty well challenged in this data above.
Alliance for Contraception in Cats and Dogs (ACC&D) is a
nonprofit 501C(3) group involved in attempting to study, define
and resolve some of the problems that currently exist internationally
as they regard issues of animal population control.
"More than 120 representatives from universities, animal welfare
organizations, foundations, companies, and government agencies
from 11 countries gathered to share information and plan for the
future". Main site: http://www.acc-d.org/
"On the negative side, neutering male dogs if done before maturity,
increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer) by a factor of 3.8;
this is a common ancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a
poor prognosis.
increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6;
this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds
triples the risk of hypothyroidism
increases the risk of geriatric cognitive impairment
triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with
it the many associated health problems associated with obesity
· quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
· doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
· increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
· increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations
Hemangiosarcoma is a common cancer in dogs. It is a major
cause of death in some breeds, such as Salukis, French Bulldogs,
Irish Water Spaniels, Flat Coated Retrievers, Golden Retrievers,
Boxers, Afghan Hounds, English Setter, Scottish Terrier, Boston
Terrier, Bulldogs, and German Shepherd Dogs24.
In an aged-matched case controlled study, spayed females were
found to have a 2.2 times higher risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma
compared to intact females24.
A retrospective study of cardiac hemangiosarcoma risk factors
found a >5 times greater risk in spayed female dogs compared
to intact female dogs and a 1.6 times higher risk in neutered male
dogs compared to intact male dogs.25
The authors suggest a protective effect of *** hormones against
hemangiosarcoma, especially in females.
In breeds where hermangiosarcoma is an im****tant cause of
death, the increased risk associated with spay/neuter is likely
one that should factor into decisions on whether or when to
sterilize a dog.
Hypothyroidism
Spay/neuter in dogs was found to be correlated with a three fold
increased risk of hypothyroidism compared to intact dogs. The
researchers suggest a cause-and-effect relation****p26.
They wrote: "More im****tant [than the mild direct impact on thyroid
function] in the association between [spaying and] neutering and
hypothyroidism may be the effect of *** hormones on the immune
system.
Castration increases the severity of autoimmune thyroiditis in mice"
which may explain the link between spay/neuter and hypothyroidism
in dogs.
"Dr. Spain, who has been recently involved in many studies *****sing
the long-term risks and benefits of early-age neutering, presented
convincing data about the effects of spay/neuter on hip dysplasia,
cranial cruciate ligament rupture, long bone development, body
weight, diabetes, urinary tract infections, mammary cancer, and
several other conditions."
CONCLUSIONS
An objective reading of the veterinary medical literature reveals
a complex situation with respect to the longterm health impacts
of spay/neuter in dogs.
The evidence shows that spay/neuter correlates with both positive
AND adverse health effects in dogs. It also suggests how much we
really do not yet understand about this subject.
On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for
neutering most male dogs to prevent future health problems,
especially immature male dogs. The number of health problems
associated with neutering may exceed the associated health
benefits in most cases.
----------------------------
> Since then, we've moved a few times. We have trained the
> dogs on an invisible fence. Now for the problems...
The shock fence CAUSES those "problems":
In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY you may
substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars
for shock and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING, CRATING, and
witholding rewards, attention, and affection:
Psychological Effects
At issue is the question, --Do electronic training
devices elicit psychological responses?
"This section cites several research studies in which the
psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices
was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine
the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods
until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in
a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on
what it is, but it varies from dog to dog.
It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect
of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired
need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild.
Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long
term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004).
Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334).
The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral changes in
dogs during training using electronic training collars. Thirty-two
dogs were divided into two groups, each receiving both general
obedience and protection training.
One group was trained with shock collars and the other group
without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars
displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched
yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and
tongue flicking.
It was also noted by the authors that, even during play and relaxed
walking, the group of dogs trained with shock collars continued to
show signs of stress while in the company of their handler.
The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful;
receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock
group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner
(or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even
outside of the normal training context.
They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at
stake, at least in the presence of their owners.
This study has come under considerable fire because the experience
of the handlers and dogs is not clear, and the level of shock is not
stated. With that said, it does suggest that dogs are stressed by the
experience of being shocked during training.
---------------------
> Greta is completely submissive with me, my wife, or my daughter.
You mean she's AFRAID.
> With some dogs, Greta is fine and will play like a puppy.
When she AIN'T AFRAID of them.
> There have been a few instances that may lead to us getting rid of her,
> though. Two times now, other neighbors dogs have come into the yard
> and have been aggressive with Greta. In both instances, Greta was very
> reactive and violent.
She's got a right to defend herself.
> If a dog/person (UPS drivers in particular) or small animal
> is out of the yard and Greta is excited, she will attack our
> other dog Graydon.
That's redirected aggression. It happens when dogs
are repressed, intimidated, abused or afraid.
LIKE THIS:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
Hello everyone:
If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.
I will add a bit more history later in this post.
Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.
The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.
I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pu****ng his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.
Muttley took the op****tunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.
That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.
When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.
She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.
She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.
"They can't all be saved".
<snip>
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience cl***** at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Here's janet's CUSTOM MADE pronged spiked pinch choke collar:
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt
Here's HOWE janet recommends usin it:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
Here's janet shocking a dog effectively:
"J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
Here's janet's PARTNER shockin a dog effectively:
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?
janet CONtinues:
> My dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
> I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
> should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
> your dog(s).
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
-------------------
LIKE THIS:
"J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey
<mhhea...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
clicked their heels and said:
> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.
yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
From: sionnach (rhyfe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
> And Sally responded:
> > Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> > that, and neither would most of the regulars
> > on here.
> >Sally Hennessey
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed
> to do so. Take it out of context and you'd think
> I was flinging puppies across the room!
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're
> talking about a 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy
is very persistant, it can be appropriate to take
hold of the loose skin at the back of the neck and
give a slight shake to the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."
----------------------
Here's rescue and shelter operator racetrack silly:
"After Numerous Training Cl*****, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unim****tant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
---------------
Here's janet's PARTNER:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context,"
sinofa***** writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
No, there was ONLY WON quote.
> > took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> > cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> > then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofa*****" instead of sionnach.
> > Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> > The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> > when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> > and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofa***** totally DENIES.
> > is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofa*****.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
--------------------
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
Here's janet's "more positive experiences" with
REAL LIFE IN PERSTON "students":
Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07
"Janet Boss" <ja...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:janet-730AB8.17321511042007@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.
What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.
I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have enough
obedience to avoid it.
While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.
We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
From: j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(J1Boss)
Date: 2000/10/06
Subject: Re: ****na Inu Experts : Please help!
Dogman, quoting howdy-doody:
>>This is a young puppy, hardly a threat to a kat.
> See? They just cannot conceive of a cat, for example, scratching
> out the eyes of a young puppy because it didn't want to be bothered
> by an over-exurburant puppy (are there any other kinds?).
********** Jerry's never met a puppy, He's never met a
RETRIEVER PUPPY, that's pretty clear. I have a wonderfully
exhuberant retriever puppy - love every minute of it.
My 17 year old cat, doesn't have quite the same appreciation.
Sometimes, Franklin licks his ears and Robie enjoys it. Other
times, Franklin thinks Robie's another puppy and Robie does
not enjoy that. Without my supervision, confinement is only
sensible (of course).
I've got Jer-Jer kill-filed, but the glimpes at his posts, through
re-posts, are good indications that nothing has changed.
> But if a crate is a "barrier" to training a puppy, then what
> must the walls of a SCHOOL ROOM be, eh?
*********** and don't forget cribs for crawling babies, safety
gates, doors, etc. Let's just open up the houses and let everyone
run amok!
> Ladies and gentlemen, he literally counts on many of you
> being too damn stupid or ignorant to see just how little he
> actually knows about dogs, puppies, cats, etc.
> Don't let him, eh?
> Dogman
************** It's so difficult for the newbies, since so many
of the people who DO have good advice, have killfiled him.
Tired of refuting slander and general inaccuracies in his "they're
all bad, I'm good" rants (without any actual training advice, as
usual) is a reality for most.
Are there actually people, besides Marilyn, who believe him?
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
THAT was your pal DOGMAN, another pathetic
miserable stinkin rotten lyin anonymHOWES coward.
Not so handsome, not so gentle, not so manly, not so
happy jackass, not even morrison aka dogman a.k.a.
BIG DADDY, a.k.a. tommy sorenson, sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and ****n. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about ru****ng past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and ****ge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
=====================
From: dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
------------------------
From: osi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls
at me sometimes. When he growls at me he
stares me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?
----------------------
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.
Knock the **** out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relation****p based on mutual respect.
Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
were pre-Lon-Chaney.
Charlie
-----------------------
> Our invisible fence stopped working last week.
Naaah?
> Tonight Greta left the yard for the first time in two years (we walk
> her on a leash, she hasn't left the yard on her own since we've been
> here).
That's unusual. They're ordinarily pretty reliable.
LIKE THIS:
From: Mark Shaw (ms...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-Shock).
>> If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?
> "If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system,
> I have one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers."
Seems our pal marquis de "read koehler for content" shaw runs
an unlicensed illegal "cottage industry," outta his HOWES, a
B+B for dogs.
>> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing -
>> - more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with
>> owners walking their dogs.
My methods cure fence jumping and escape behavior in a couple
minutes without shocking and choking and crating and beating
and shooting "a good slingshot or a few BB's" as instructed
in our koehler book that we should read for content. ed w of
petloss dot CON recommends we read koehler, sez he could be
the world's best trainer.
>> I thought of raising the fence a foot or so,
Because there's no way to train a dog not to jump a barrier.
>> but don't think that'll solve the problem.
Course not. Neither will hurting him, that'll
make IT want to escape even MOORE.
>> I've tried watching her outside, and give a stern "NO"
>> when she props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
Course not. That'll make him try harder soon as you're not lookin.
>> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.
> I take it you're considering running the wire across the top of
> the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it may be
> worth a try."
Course. Might as well try to HURT the dog to force it not to
want to run away. Dogs run away from their HOWESES for the
same reason kids do... they're usually abused and neglected,
even despite the daily jerk and choke and shock training.
> Watch closely -- the one case where I saw a hotwire used
> in this fa****on caused the dog undue stress and frustration,
That was on one of your illegal customer's dogs who didn't know
you was fixin to BURN their Dane while you was giving him some
loving care. Those stupid bastards trusted you not to HURT their
dog...and you done your best, but just couldn't bear NOT to HURT.
> and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
Of course, marquis. That's what got Peach DEAD.
> So be prepared to take it down right away.
So he don't get caught, marquis? He's not shocking an illegal
boarding customer's dog like you were... marquis de "READ
KOEHLER FOR CONTENT" shaw <{}: ~ ( >
> That was a Dane, though.
Yeah. A cash customer's dog. You couldn't afford to return IT
with a case of nervous aggression...and you couldn't get caught
with a hotwire just in case the dog squeals on you by his new
nervous responses.
> With a Saint things might be different.
Yeah. Did you see CUJO?
--
Mark Shaw (and Maggie) anti-spam: change 'bang' to 'not'
--------------------
"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> how effective are these electronic fences in
> keeping a dog on a property????
Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.
Just hides under a desk in the house.
------------------------------------
"micha el" spam_yurs...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
in message
news:yIydnZpPsIzg6l_d4p2dnA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
it felt like to me when I got shocked by
Hope's collar.
It felt like a bomb going off in my
hand and forearm.
--------------------------
THAT'S HOWE COME Misty's DEAD DOG
Peaches got DEAD on us <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
From: misty (Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Date: 2002-01-23 07:46:16 PST
Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?
Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.
The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home
were: build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan
on putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.
Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning
anything. At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.
By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had
already ran away.
Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread is
mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days. I
stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated that
his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.
The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.
Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it in
my e-mail ( no storage otherwise on webby unless you put stuff
on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.
Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it on
Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!
I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to lose
another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with little
kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I still look
to see if she came home when we get back from trips. Maybe
Peach would still have ran away... I don't know and never
will....
~misty
-------------------
"misty" <Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote in message
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do
know she's not here with us. I really can't blame
anyone here for her loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it
because of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling
to accept the idea that my using a shock collar
could have any bearing on Peach not wanting
to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had
been keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
concern became how to keep them from running
off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled
in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the
world now <g> A Wits End Trained dog, one who
is completely housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff,
stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
================
misty" <Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and
no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want
to come back in the yard and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few
minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in
the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop
her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
when we walk around the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I
hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get
a regular fence then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to
keep my dog in our yard again.
The price was too high:-(
~misty
-----------------
From: Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(misty)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:44:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Anyone tried the Wits End Training manual?
I used the Wit's Ends Training manual to teach myself how
to interact with Zelda. The first read through made no
sense to me...the second time through, things clicked and
the little lightbulb glowed.
I trained Zelda to stay in the yard, not chase cats, to come,
sit ,down, stop chewing toys and to be quiet when she barks
at things she hears outside.
I don't care if 99% of the manual came from 99 other trainers...
I needed the info, it was offered free of charge and any questions
can be asked of Jerry.
One thing about his method, although you can "spot" train
with it, it works best by a pyramid approach.IOW start
at the beginning and go through the exercises in the order
he has them wrote.
The part about "non-physical praise" confused me until I
tried a little experiment. I petted Zelda and told her
what a good girl she was...she enjoyed it, tail wagging.
I then put my hand away from her (behind my back) and
praised her...she got very wiggly, ****ged me with her nose,
pawed at me and wanted more praise. Not very scientific,
I know, but it was interesting to me how excited she got.
I find that I'm starting to use Jerry's method to "train"
my kids as well:-)
~misty
My "daughter" http://community-2.webtv.net/Momisty/ZeldaAnneArensdorf/
My sons http://community-2.webtv.net/Momisty/Arensdorf14Acre/
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Anyone tried the Wits End Training manual?
On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:44:25 -0500 (CDT),
Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(misty) wrote:
> I find that I'm starting to use Jerry's method to "train" my kids as
> well:-) ~misty My "daughter"
> http://community-2.webtv.net/Momisty/ZeldaAnneArensdorf/
My sons
> http://community-2.webtv.net/Momisty/Arensdorf14Acre/
Hi Misty!
I had just about exactly the same experience with Jerry's manual.
I had visited quite a few dog-training web sites, and, while they
didn't recommend anything too harsh, they all emphasized that
I must "assert my dominance" over the pup.
Anytime I tried doing that (just once or twice) it produced a
distinctly negative result... The pup got scared and ran away.
When I took the approach of simply making myself into the most
im****tant and desirable thing in her world, she responded incredibly
well. Now I can even break off a rabbit chase instantly (which I do
NOT want to allow, as I live in a rural area with chickens and
livestock) just by calling her once in a calm, affectionate voice.
Your kids and your dog are adorable, BTW!
You can see my pup at
http://www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy
Check the "more pictures" link -- like your dog, Holly
is more than happy to do an "alpha rollover" when I use
the gentle, non-confrontational approach Jerry recommends.
Charlie
================
> She left the yard to go after a collie that was being walked,
> and she bit a tuft of fur from the collie. The collie is very
> aggressive with our dogs when we are walking, it is very
> aggressive with cars or pedestrians that go by its house,
> and is known to the neighborhood to be "crazy".
That so?
> Regardless of the collie's behavior, I have to get control of my dog.
> I need an effective training program for her behavior, or I'll have to
> put her down.
On 5/31 Valerie wrote in with a dog/dog/handler/child
aggressive Dalmatian who'd spent a couple years in a
shelter gettin beatup by other dogs.
She wrote back on 6/3 sayin her dog don't got noMOORE
aggression problems since studying her FREE copy of my
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual:
Val writes Monday, 6/3/02:
Well, for what it's worth, I am praising without physical
contact and she does seem to listen better than when I
would praise with it. I agree that it is a distraction.
Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from
her since I started the Witts End.
------------------
Then a lyin dog abusin MENTAL CASE sez:
"MaryBeth" <marbe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3cfcdcfb$2_8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "MaryBeth" <marbe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote in message
> > Didja also see that he has 'morphed' into Valerie M.
> > Holmes ?????
> Note: I am not saying there isn't a VALID Valerie
> M. Holmes, but this one lives in howdy's home.
> MB <G>
From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (Holme...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST
HEY!!!
There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian
who is a real sweet dog with a few issues that I
am working to resolve after adopting her from a
shelter she spent 2 years in.
All I want is to get some decent help for my dog.
There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual.
My dog has ACTUALLY been responding to
her training. The deal is you have to seperate
your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the
manual what you want.
Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out of
the whole Jerry thing. I have to say the guy
is pretty clever, you're letting him get under
your skin.
It makes for a very amusing game I think.
I'm sure he would agree, or he wouldn't be playing
everyday. He also wouldn't be playing if he didn't
believe that his method of training weren't valid.
Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes, but so far,
using the Wits' End, I have gotten my dalmatian
to listen to me, to look to me for direction, to wait
for me to say when.
I have changed her from an aggressive dog to
one who is willing to please her owner, willing
to listen, willing to assume her role in the pack.
The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking
P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing
into me, ok?
"Linda" <llindaleedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote in message
news:
I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women
who hasn't trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sun****ne
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sun****ne but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sun****ne back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-
- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
----------------------------------
> I've spent a lot of time in the yard with her, making her sit
> when other dogs go by, making her sit or lay down whenever
> she gets aggressive in any way.
You mean you've been repressing and intimidating her.
> When I'm not standing over her, she does her own aggressive thing.
Naaaah?
> Every program on the internet claims to be the best,
Yeah. They ALL teach you to bribe hurt and intimidate your doggy.
LIKE THIS:
Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research at UofWI,
marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face
for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation,"
dermer, PRYOR to gettin JERRYIZED:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
Subject:
Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer)
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
mattburns...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED CASE}
HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > tami sutherland <suthe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes: However, there
> > have been incidences where she has growled and snapped at us...
> > for instance, when we were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5 sec, and
> loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold her mouth shut
> for say 15 sec.
>
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you will have to find
> another way to administer a prompt correction, for example, throwing
> a can filled with pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, professor of ANAL-ytic behavior, UofWI.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Update on Puppy Biting
Date: 1999/06/14
In article <37675817.19034...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
clayn@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> My previous thread seems to have deteriorated off topic, but I would
> still like some input on biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I
> have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old. The biggest problem
> I had with him is biting.
> This could have been when petting him, walking by, or when
> playing. This seems to be his way of playing or getting attention,
> but it can drive me nuts. To stop this I've distracted with chew toys,
Distraction can be a BIG mistake! Why? Because if
your manipulation of the chew toy is reinforcing then
you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog for biting if
you follow his biting with activating the chew toy.
The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp
loudly," "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand,"
or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck" and say "no"
whenever he bites.
All of these are punishment procedures and
to work they must be put into place promptly,
within say .5 sec, after the bite.
Isolating the dog after a bite is another form
of punishment called time-out (from reinforcement
but it is hard to rapidly implement--within .5
sec of a bite.
If one of these procedures does not work, that is,
your dog behaves as if it were a game, then you
are not using an effective punisher/procedure.
> I said NO, and failing that put him in my room alone for a few min.
> When in there he barks and whines, but afterwards behaves much
> better. After about a week of this the biting has decreased remarkably,
> but hasn't stopped outright. Still does it when he gets into hyper Puppy
> Jihad mode.
Well, be patient.
You can, of course, use differential reinforcement
of other behavior to eliminate biting. If there is a
situation in which your dog often bites. then create
the situation and if your dog goes without biting for
1 sec. offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use
a clicker).
Then gradually increase the time that your dog
must go without biting for the reinforcer to be
delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and
the other behaviors that you have been reinforcing
will be more frequent.
Another factor to consider is whether your dog
is getting sufficient exercise.
Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.
Best wishes,
Marshall
=====================
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Paul B (NOSPAMpand...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST
Hello Marshall,
The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.
The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.
A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.
One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an im****tant
part of the process.
> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:
No, not "backup"; FIRST, pryor to usin sounds.
professor SCRUFF SHAKE sez:
> There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!
Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE, professor.
From: "Marisa" <mari...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002
Subject: one day
I started some of the simple techniques in
Jerrys manual today.
The family pack exercise.... come command.....
that's all so far though.
I did get the proper equipment as well.
20 foot leash, cans with pennies partially
crushed, flat collar, etc.
I have also stopped any negative reinforcment
such as loud "No" and "Bad girl Sonique!"
(Sonique is my Jack russell) and holding her
back, which I normally MUST do or she'll jump
and nip sometimes, but always jumping and barking.
Already tonight some has started working.
When someone came to the door, Sonique
went nuts as usual.
I said "Thank you Sonique!"
"It's o.k. girl, thank you!"
And we got a total of about 6 barks and then
no jumping on guests, no biting, growling
or the worst, the continued barking she
normally does.
She accepted my praise, and trooted around,
still excited over guests, but she was WAY
more under control.
Even my roomates noticed this.
She repeated this same thing
without all her normal fuss later
when another two friends came over.
So I do need more time, going to keep with it
another day, another month whatever until I
know I am getting results, although I must say,
so far I am impressed with my dog.
She really responds to praise better than
she ever has responded to treats as distraction
from the guests and doorbell, or me yelling
"bad girl! go away now! shoosh up!" all the time.
I am also verbally praising her everytime
she makes eye contact with me. so hopefully
things will continue going well!-
- Marisa
From: "0513chgo" <0513c...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002
Subject: Re: Jerry Howe
Marshall Dermer wrote in message ... > In articleSsyE8.20247$t8_.
12...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Marisa" <mari...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>> So I downloaded your Wits End today,
>> and I have started reading, and I am
>> planning on using it from now on and
>> see what results I get.
> Marisa you have much hard reading
> ahead of you because Jerry's manual
> is verbose and spends about as many
> lines condeming other approaches as
> describing what to do.
Please leave Marisa be and let her be happy
with training her dog the way she wants to!
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: Jerry Howe
He CAN'T.
He's fighting for his career and reputation...he's F'd.
Jerry.
--------------------
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-10 13:34:38 PST
In article <HRI27.3908$187.184...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Jenn"
<d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
> Hi Lynn,
> I used to have a barking problem with my
> German Shepherd Dog a couple of years ago.
> I tried several things recommended to me by
> different trainers, and nothing was working.
> When I read that section of Jerry's Manual,
> I thought the same way you did.
> "What???? PRAISE her for barking?" It sounded
> counterproductive, but I had tried everything else
> I'd heard so I thought I'd try it too.
> Next time she went nuts at a person walking by
> outside, I told her, "Good job! Good girl! You are
> such a good protector!" And instead of continuing
> the barking, she came to me for a belly rub! She
> will still bark (she's a guard dog, that's her job),
> but after one bark, she knows she's done her job
> to warn me by my praise, and she stops.
> Jenn,
Could you be so kind as to post here the
section from Jerry's manual where he
writes that you should JUST praise the
dog when it barks?????????
As I recall, I thought he first advocates
distracting the dog from barking, with
keys or the soft sound of pennies in a
can, before praising.
Perhaps you can tutor me regarding
Jerry's system.
Thanks in advance!
--Marshall Dermer
PS: I don't read Jerry's posts but I look
forward to your post.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Clicker training "stay"
Date: 2001-06-21 20:25:38 PST
In article <iqtY6.5456$rA2.1119...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
"Jenn" <d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
> Hi, DogStar716, sorry you feel this way about
> me. I hope I can change your mind in the future,
> as I love reading your posts, and value (and
> have used) some of your advice.
BWWWWWEEEJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAA!!!
> As for my post to Jer, I am just attempting
> to get a plain answer about something instead
> of a trash- fest. I just want to know if it can be
> done.
> Jenn Standring
I'm not Jerry but sure you could use a clicker to
distract a dog but that is not the purpose of a clicker.
You can also use a teaspoon to cut steak
but that is not the purpose of teaspoon!
--Marshall
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Paul B (NOSPAMpand...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST
Hello Marshall,
The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.
The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.
A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.
One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an im****tant
part of the process.
> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:
> There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!
Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE:
Subject: Jerry's Dog Training Manual + I Am Willing To
Take Jerry's Theory On How Dogs Think As A Likely One,
Simply Because The Dog Training Methodology He Describes
(Based On His Suppositions) Works So Well.
Hi Marshall,
I'll do my best to answer you... please bear with me, ok? :-)
Marshall Dermer wrote:
> In article <3B4B013F.914E0...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 2tails
<wagginta...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
> <snip Dave's response>
> > Not to mention, the manual has a lot regarding how dogs
> > think, which can't be explained just by a short description
> > of "what to do." The psychology behind the method is
> > needed so that the person reading it will be able to figure
> > out their dogs' problems by themselves. Problems, as in
> > "why is my dog doing 'X,'" and figuring out ways to address
> > it, if necessary.
> > regards,
> > Lisa
> Dear Lisa,
> How would you know if Jerry's analysis of "how dog's
> think" is correct? That is, if thinking is some invisible
> process inside of a dog's head how would we know if
> Jerry or anyone is correct?
Of course, it isn't necessary at all to know how dogs think,
or even if they *do* think. I believe that they do, but of
course I can't prove it, and neither can Jerry.
The heart of the matter is, the discussion in the manual
regarding "how dogs think" is part of a wholistic approach
to dog training. It helps to comprehend the reasoning
behind the methodology. The methodology works quickly
and easily, therefore lending credence (as far as I'm
concerned) to his theory of how dogs think.
It's the same sort of thing regarding theories of whether
the earth revolves around the sun, or contrariwise. Is it
possible to send a rocket to the moon, based on the
assumption that the sun revolves around the earth?
The answer is, of course, yes, though it would most likely
be enormously complicated. The better solution is to begin
with the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.
In other words, the simplest answer or description is the best,
even though it may not be empirically provable. And so, I am
willing to take Jerry's theory on how dogs think as a likely one,
simply because the dog training methodology he describes
(based on his suppositions) works so well.
I hope this helps you to understand from which
perspective I say the things that I do about Jerry's
method and manual.
regards,
Lisa
------------------------
> I need some help.
Well then, you've come to the right place <{}'; ~ ) >
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Sup****t Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and sup****t your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establi****ng a nonprofit
charity to fund your im****tant work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> If you've read this far, then thank you very much for just that.
LikeWIZE <{}: ~ ) >
> If you've got any advice, I'd greatly appreciate it.
The actual instrucion in my manual starts on the third page
*(there's links on the left side of the main page) sez *777*
Wits' End Manual, abHOWET 1/4 down the page, begining
with "here's all the information you need".
> Brian
"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.
All truth p***** through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.
INDEEDY.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
The World's CRUELEST Trainer
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C* *G-R-A-N-D* *M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
E-mail:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ } >
oo-oo
|
