HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka not so handsome,
not so happy, not so gentle, not so manly, jackass,
not even jack morrison aka joey finnochiarrio aka
howie lip****z aka BIG DADDY aka DOGMAN,
a.k.a. *****MAN, you pathetic miserable stinkin
anonymHOWES malignant maliciHOWES lyin dog
child an spHOWES abusing punk thug coward active
accute chronic life long incurable mental case and
paranoid homophobe, misogynist, puppy miller and
shock collar salesman,
"Handsome "Jack" Morrison" <handsomejackmorrison@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
message
news:nomt34li2qtkg8eos0e1806l3kemvcqiue@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Thu, 29 May 2008 14:32:25 +0100, Phil Odox
> <philodox@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 29 May 2008 09:06:16 -0400, Shelly <shelly@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>Phil Odox wrote:
>>>
>>>> "I've made it perfectly clear that I deliver the click to
>>>> quickly tell the dog that a reward is coming the moment
>>>> he STOPS humping"
>>>
>>>How, exactly, do you propose to do that?
>>
>>Well, he does stop momentarily when I tell him to, and
>>that's when I click to tell him that a reward is on the way.
>>It's not exactly working very well, but I'm going to stick
>>with this method and see how we get along with it.
>
> Phil, do you think you're eventually going to try and formally clicker
> train your dog? As opposed to (say) using traditional collar and leash
> training?
You mean, traditional JERKING, CHOKING, ALPHALPHA
ROLLING, KNEEING, and SHOCKING, tommy?
> If so, I'd stop doing what you're doing with the clicker,
> because it's really not "clicker training", it's just distraction.
Oh GOODY~!
tommy's ready to discuss his "TRAINING" methods, eh, tommy?
tommy wrote:
From: dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Dogman) Date: 1997/11/11
Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding *****sment
This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole, distortion,
lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely out of context,
instead.
What lying hypocrites these hand-wringers are!
------------------------
> And just about any distraction will work here, e.g., clapping your
hands.
Can you do that an chew gum at the same time, tommy?
I can do it with my eyes closed. Can you, tommy?
> Your best bet is to just stop him from humping. Yes, physically,
> along with a simple verbal reprimand, "No."
Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS, tommy?:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and ****n. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about ru****ng past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and ****ge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
You mean like HOWE when you HOWEsbreak a dog an
you beat IT with a switch or heavy man's leather belt and
tie him next to his evil deed and return to BEAT HIM every
twenty minutes, tommy?
tommy SEZ:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
-----------------------
> That, coupled with some good OBEDIENCE TRAINING,
You mean, like the kind YOU SELL, tommy?
Oh, you mean, like HOWE "jack" heelped Robert Crim's
DEAD DOG Fritz an laura arlov's DEAD DOG Chewie
an k.w.brown's DEAD DOG Teena an steve walker's
DEAD DOG Sampson an purple pony's DEAD DOG
Raggdoll an chrisman dinan's DEAD DOG Usal tommy?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
You mean, LIKE THIS, tommy?
Here's a couple of tommy sorenson's aka not so
handsome, not so gentle, jackass, not even
morrison a.k.a. DOGMAN, the anonymHOWES
COWARD's "STUDENTS":
"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.
From: Laura Arlov (l...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !
Date: 1999/01/20
Quote laura:
Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.
Laura in Oslo
You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?
Quote laura:
The listener,
You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE
your dog or you'd make IT aggressive.
Quote laura:
the observer.
NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.
Quote laura:
We do work were you sometimes have to observe people
Like laura, MURDERING her dog...
Quote laura:
and take notes.
INDEEDY!
Quote laura:
B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.
RIGHT...
Quote laura:
Laura and Angel in Oslo
steve walker's DEAD DOG Sampson was a shelter / rescue Golden.
He begain TURNING on his daughter so he PUNISHED IT. That
seemed to have CURED Sampson's FEAR of steve's daughter but
TAUGHT IT to attack OTHER daddy's daughters, and GOT HIM
DEAD, despite all the EXXXPERTEASE of HOWER fellHOWE
dog lovers here and the BIG SHOT, john rogerson, in the UK <{}: ~ ( >
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the s***my likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of **** you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood
enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
============
tommy sez:
> Sucker.
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWEAAAHAAAHAAAHAA~!~!~!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:54:57 +0100
Subject: Sad news (Samson)
Hello everyone, hope you remember me. I've been quiet here for ages,
firstly because of a computer breakdown that took ages to remedy, and
then it's been difficult to find the heart to write to the group again.
You see, on Sep 21, after much heart-searching, I took Samson back to
the RSPCA to be put to sleep. He was a brilliant dog with his family,
but was becoming more & more fear reactive with people, especially small
children, and (apparently randomly) with other dogs, to the point where
we had to muzzle him when he went out and if we had visitors (which is
often), because we just couldn't trust people to remember to leave him
alone, so his quality of life had become not much.
We put him through a rehab programme from John Rogerson's practice - I
gather he's pretty well-known, so some of you might have heard of him -
which did everything they said it would (reliable recall, focused his
attention much more on us, etc - except reduce his tendency to react
suddenly and bite. The vet had checked him and found nothing, but I'd
still have suspected a brain tumour or something if it hadn't been for
the fact that he was totally reliable with the kids and us.
I called the RSPCA to let them know that the rehab programme wasn't
working, and they said that if we gave him back, they'd *****s him but
he'd almost certainly be put down. I couldn't let him be alone among
strangers for his last moments, so I asked if they'd let me take him
immediately and stay with him while it was done, and they agreed.
It was a sunny day, and he was happy enough on the drive to the centre,
but I could barely hold myself together. He was nervous of going into
the surgery and I had to coax him in, and I felt like an utter traitor.
I stroked him as they prepared him, crying and telling him how sorry I
was, and nearly panicked and ran out with him when they brought out the
needle. But I knew if I did it would only be delaying the inevitable,
and I'd be risking someone, probably a child, being injured, which I
couldn't do. So I went through with it, and in a few seconds it was
over and I'd killed my dog, who trusted me to look after him.
I told a mailing list I'm on straight away, and they've been
fantastically kind. I was in a daze for days afterwards, and
still have the occasional flashback to that day, but I'm coping
a lot better now, and would love to give a home to another dog,
but my wife doesn't feel ready yet.
Soon, though, I hope. I miss Samson terribly, but while I feel
a lot of guilt for the decision I made, I know there wasn't another
way out, and at least I could make sure I was with him at the end.
I owed him that.
I know there are some here who will gloat over this email, but all I
can say is that their opinion, their existence, is irrelevant to me. For
the rest of you, the good, decent majority who frequent this group, I
didn't want to just disappear, and not tell you what had happened,
after you gave me so much sup****t and help from the outset.
Samson was my first dog, and the help I got here made life
much better for him and us while we were together.
If the glad day comes when we do adopt another dog,
I'll let you know. I hope it's soon.
God bless,
--
Steve Walker
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 2000/10/09
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = I'm GLAD You Killed Samson, He Was A BAD
GENETIC Choice. You Did The Right Thing. Turn And Don't Look Back.
In article <FJ6E5.62103$O95.4439...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, Jerry Howe
<jh...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes
>Nor can I. Nor can Marilyn. She does the same kind of work I do. We
>KNEW this was going to happen, based on steve's original posts here...
Jerry, you're still in my killfile, but somehow this one made it
through, so I'll respond before I ignore you again.
You obviously have a very short memory. Samson was not trained using
aggressive, confrontational or harsh methods. John Rogerson's rehab
programme was based entirely on using kind methods to get Samson's
attention even more fixed on us (which wouldn't have worked if they were
not kind), with the intention that Samson wouldn't even be interested in
other dogs and people, until we had such good control that we could
start to introduce others under controlled cir***stances that would
persuade Samson it was great to have them around.
It worked, in so far as Samson became even more attached to us, had a
perfect recall etc. Unfortunately, this didn't stop the fact that he
might suddenly react aggressively to even the proximity of a stranger or
strange dog.
No aggressive methods were used in this programme. Not one. But the
problem was too deep-rooted, too instinctive, and Samson just couldn't
help himself. He'd shake if a small child even entered the room, and if
they approached him he'd try to bite them. Not as a reaction to
aggression, but just because he had some deep-rooted fear issue going
back to before we ever had him.
We could not risk that he would injure someone, especially a child, so
we made the decision we did - not lightly, but with tears.
You, however, are an idiot. Don't bother replying, because even if one
of your posts makes it past the killfile again, you'll just be binned
with the rest of the garbage.
Goodbye.
--
Steve Walker
QUOTE FROM lyingdogDUMMY:
> "The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for buying into
> anything Howe ever has to say, about anything, and for not
> listening to me when it comes to dogs."
Ever hear the expression "sit rolls down hill?"
> but was becoming more & more fear reactive with people,
> especially small children,
That's it in a nutshell. You taught him through your own actions,
HOWE to deal with other, less capable beings. Dogs copy our
actions and attitudes. They mirror us. They emulate us. And
when we respond to their natural, innate, instinctive, reflexive
behaviors, with punishment, the dog loses confidence in our
judgement and leader****p ability.
Seems I recall you mentioning the children were learning to
CORRECT Samson on lead, so THEY could enjoy walking
with him. Didn't you mention they were learning some alpha
dominance techniques as well?
Can't let that big lug pull down the children now, can we?
So you teach the children to violate the dog's trust with a few
good corrections. And YOU back up the children with the
HAMMERS OF HELL...
And it worked. Didn't it, just as I told you so. Just as I told Robert
Crim. But you guys were too smart to be taken in by this con man.
You listened to our fear, force, and alpha dominance control freaks,
who learned ALL that they know about dog behavior from the
MADMAN, MONSTER, wm koehler.
So, it seems the only problem is that you didn't read the back of the
book. That's what our Gang Of Thugs fails to mention, until it's too
late. That's the part that says when the dog is finally provoked to act
out on his trainer or other weaker family members, that you've got to
HANG the dog till his eyes roll back in ITS head, ITS tongue turns
thick and blue and falls out the side of ITS mouth, and when you put
IT back on the ground, IT should stagger to IT'S feet, and PUKE.
That's the cure for this behavior problem, you just never asked.
I expect you'll enjoy your next dog as much as you enjoyed Samson.
Tell him HOWEDY for me, eh good buddy? Eh? Huh? Huh? Eh??? Eh???
Yours for responsible dog handling and training,
Jerry "Don't Confront The Dog" Howe.
From: Dogman <dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 2000/10/08
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = ninnyboy
"JohnK" <jo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> It's too late. I already know what a disgusting, vile
> human being you are. You are to be ignored now.
Come on, John.
It didn't really take that Sampson post for you to know
that Howe is a disgusting, vile human being, did it?
I hope not.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RIP Teena 1999 - 2004
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me10...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
message news:p8sn1093e89a5202rdr1an5b5pgd3gdrrf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 31 Jan 2004 17:48:39 GMT, KWBrown arfenarfSPAMBL...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
> Well.
> She tried to take a bite out of our trainer, and that was that.
> Teena the ESS made her last trip to the vet and, I hope,
> sleeps more peacefully than she has in years.
I'm very sorry to hear that, Kate.
But going by the information you posted here about her,
you had no choice.
Godspeed, Teena.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Hello Dogdirtforbirdbrains,
You ain't getting away with that any more. You are not going to get
away with blaming genetics for the behavior problems created
through abusive training methods recommended by thugs like you
and Koehler, that cause dogs to turn on their owners and families,
and die as a result!
People are getting smart around here, and fast! You becoming well
recognized for what you are. I don't need to elaborate on that
anymore. Everybody knows.
> What a piece of **** you are, Crim. Blaming me, or blaming
> Koehler, for poor Fritz's problem, is like blaming a doctor who
> couldn't save your child's life, and that's unconscionable.
You told Crim that Koehler was fantastic. He bought it hook, line,
and sinker, and it sank him. You must know the risk, just as I do. I've
seen this sort of thing happen repeatedly for over thirty years. It
will stop. I'm not going to allow you people to get away with it
anymore.
I will dog you, Koehler, and all of your kind right to the gates of
Hell, and I'll train Appallion to keep you there forever. Guaranteed.
The gates of Hell are guarded by a Wits' End trained dog.
> Your dog was almost certainly predestined by his *genes* to end
> up like he did, particularly since he had *you* as his thoroughly
> confused, ignorant and inconsistent doofus owner.
No, it was the Koehler method that killed Fritz. It was your advice
that killed Fritz. It was me, not being here sooner, that killed Fritz.
Crim was a victim, just like Fritz. Crim did everything by the book,
exactly as per the instructions. He followed your advice. He lost,
big time. I could have predicted the outcome, the percentage of this
kind of "collateral damage" is unacceptably high.
Those things, I am certain of. Those things, I am determined to stop.
> The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for buying into
> anything Howe ever has to say, about anything, and for not
> listening to me when it comes to dogs.
You are mad at me, because I forced Crim to examine exactly what
happened to Fritz, and he came to the correct conclusion. If I
hadn't, he'd be doing the same things he'd done before, but harder, and
faster, and maybe lost his next dog, faster and harder.
You now blame the genes, you now blame Crim for mishandling.
You said it was a good thing he destroyed his untrustworthy dog.
That is the kind of response you have given many people over the
years, isn't it? I know that for certain, I've been fighting you
Thugs all my life. It's almost over now, people are getting wise to
you, and Koehler, and Fraud Die, and the rest of the "in crowd" here.
Before, it was just me fighting for proper handling and training
methods. You've all ganged up on me, trying everything possible to
discredit and intimidate me. That didn't work. Not one of you cretins
have successfully discredited any of my methods. Keep trying, please.
Now, there are several competent professional dog trainers, all with
somewhat different but nonetheless acceptable, non force, methods.
For the first time in my career, I've learned something from another
dog trainer. We've got a good thing going now, and you and our
Gang Of Thugs have to change, or go off into obscurity, in shame and
contempt.
You can't make up for the harm you've done, but you were an
innocent victim just like Crim, and you can be forgiven, and
rehabilitated, and you don't have to continue doing any more harm.
The choice is up to you. It's time to do or die.
> Dogman aka "Big Daddy"
> dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SEE? SEE?? SEE???
> should eventually make the humping behavior a thing of the past.
Humping is a SYMPTOM of anXXXIHOWESNESS, tommy.
>>> I've got no personal experience with clicker training, so I'm
>>> curious about how you'd use one to stop an unwanted behavior.
>> At the moment I'm only using it to help stop him from
>> humping everything when he gets tired.
>
> But that will, not might, present you with real problems down the
> road, should you eventually decide to actually
> learn how to use a clicker *correctly*.
Perhaps you missed the thread "Clicker Project FIZZLES", tommy?
> Your dog will be confused, and so will you.
No, the dog will become anXXXIHOWES as THAT'S
the RESULT of offering and witholding BRIBES till
the dog THROWS MINDLESS, MEANINGLESS,
UNTHINKING, RANDOM BEHAVIORS to release
the BRIBE from the human Skinner Box, tommy.
> The very best way to learn how to clicker train
> your dog is in a clicker-training class.
HOWE does a dog in a "clicker training class" differentiate HIS
click / clicker from ALL the OTHER clicks / clickers, tommy?
HE CAN'T, tommy.
> Don't try to do this on your own. You'll make it harder
> on your dog, and on yourself, than it has to be.
That so, tommy? You think it'd be harder than
you jerkin an chokin an shockin IT, tommy?
>> Timing seems to be the key; you've got to click the moment
>> he obeys andthen reward him, thereby distracting him.
THAT'S ABSURD.
> You're allowing him to hump until he stops humping, which
> is actually probably reinforcing his humping habit.
No, the REWARD associated with the CLICK REWARDS
and REINFORCES the undesirable behavior, tommy.
> Don't let him hump right now. Period.
You mean, just don't let him do it, tommy?
>>His toilet training is going great.
INDEED? Seems his "toilet training" is HOWE COME
he's become anXXXIHOWES and began humping.
> If I remember correctly, he's making mistakes, right?
INDEEDY. HOWEsbreakin is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks of age.
A 9 week old puppy can CON-TRAIN hisself ALL DAY or ALL
NIGHT, provided he's not made anXXXIHOWESS from abuse.
> Well, you can't let him keep making mistakes, Phil. Just picking
> him up and taking him outside after he starts to "go" isn't enough,
> if that's all you're doing right now.
That's right, tommy. IN FACT, pickin the puppy up
REWARDS and REINFORCES the PROBLEM.
> You have to ANTICIPATE when he's even thinking about "going"
Oh, kinda like Karnac?
> and take him outside *before* he starts to "go."
Oh, you mean PSYCHIC trainin, eh, tommy??
> You can't take your eyes off him. Ever.
THAT'LL REWARD the BAD BEHAVIOR just like pickin
IT up, tommy, even if you're only pickin IT up to GIVE IT A
BEATIN.
LIKE THIS:
via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
<message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_br...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
> >tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
> (i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
> situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
> incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> >enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> >5 minutes of his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
> careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
> it over with quickly than it is to do it
> incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only
> invites the need for even more discipline.
>
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings
> >for housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive
> >behavior, stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be
> looked at in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical
> discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
> every individual dog and situation, we feel
> obligated to emphasize from the outset that
> discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for
> all offenses. We do, however, believe that physical
> and verbal discipline can be an effective technique.
> The best policy if you experience any of the above
> problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
> veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
> situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training
> technique, it should be the proper technique. We
> feel we have developed several methods that depend
> less on violent physical force than timing, a flair
> for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to
> map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic
> because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know
> what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
> those serious, special occasions when other methods
> have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical
> discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores --
> only on those rare occasions when an already
> reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
> evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
> adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
> house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
> housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip
> to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer
> that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to
> get this dog house-trained and save his life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional
> training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
> guns -- physical and verbal discipline.
>
> Whenever the dog soiled the house (no, you don't even
> have to catch him in the act), I immediately (but very
> calmly) tossed a leash on his collar, dragged him to
> the scene of the crime, and (using a large chair as a
> prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with his nose
> about two inches away from the poop.
>
> After a couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing,
> and a wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously stopped.
>
> The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented life with
> his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for
> novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
> detonator to reply via e-mail
SEE?
> And by regulating his input,
You mean, witholding his food an water, tommy?
> you can pretty easily regulate (and thus anticipate) his output, too.
That so, tommy? AIN'T THAT HOWE COME dogs GO INSANE, tommy?
> Otherwise he will eventually become *conditioned* to going both
> inside and outside, and you won't be very happy with the results.
Well, we wouldn't want Phil to be UNHAPPY, would we, tommy??
> Do NOT allow him to become conditioned to "going" inside.
RIGHT. DON'T FEED or WATER IT and LOCK IT IN A BOX.
> I repeat, do NOT allow him to become conditioned to "going" inside.
Hmmm. Seems you've RUN HOWET of INFORMATION, eh, tommy??
> As far as the neutering situation is concerned, generally speaking,
> there is really only one valid reason to spay or neuter a dog, and
> that is to prevent the dog from adding to the surplus pet problem.
Which AIN'T a problem unless your dog ESCAPES.
> So, in my opinion, you're doing the right thing by not allowing
> yourself to be buffaloed into having your puppy neutered. Yes, that
> *will* require more supervision on your part, but if you're willing
> and able to provide that supervision,
You mean, MANAGEMENT, instead of TRAININ, tommy?
DESPITE that like HOWE you sez, "MANAGEMENT
ALWAYS FAILS," tommy?:
lying frosty dahl wrote:
"My behaviorist friend says, however, that "management
always fails." "my aggression-specialist friend has a maxim:
"management always fails."
Re: Dog Whisperer Week on National Geographic
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomejackmorri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message news:i222d25gibj3sdv85pg8u370e4m4ap1v10@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
again, "****" happens.
It's possible to avoid "****" from happening altogether, by never
doing anything, but that doesn't help dogs very much, does it?
But as some folks are wont to say: "Management always fails."
It'll fail for you one day, too. And I bet it already
has, probably many times, in fact.
The more dogs you try to manage, the more
things you try to do, the more times it'll fail.
Because I've see too much "****" actually happen,
and know that it's impossible to totally prevent.
"****" has happened a number of times just today, at
my place, because someone simply forgot to do what
he was supposed to do. He's done it correctly, oh,
maybe a thousand times now, but today he didn't, and
"****" happened.
Actually, you should feel pretty good about the fact "
that he actually shows "****" happening on his show.
--------------
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> there's no valid reason to have him neutered.
RIGHT.
> And you can always change your mind down the road,
> after he's fully developed, etc.
HOWE COME??
> Good luck with your new pup!
Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK, tommy. "LUCK is for SUCKERS. NEVER
make a SUCKER'S bet," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{}: ~ ) >
> --
> Handsome "Jack" Morrison
Perhaps you'll recommend some GOOD BOOKS, eh, tommy?
From: dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
------------------------
From: osi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls
at me sometimes. When he growls at me he
stares me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?
----------------------
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.
Knock the **** out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relation****p based on mutual respect.
Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
were pre-Lon-Chaney.
Charlie
-----------------------
Here's lyingdogDUMMY BEATIN a dog to
HOWEsbreak IT.
But FIRST, a little good KOEHLER trainin:
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
"Housebreaking Problems:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the op****tunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.
Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is im****tant to your future relation****p that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much puni****ng.
Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an op****tunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.
In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.
The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.
If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.
It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
<message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (DogStar716)
wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
> huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
> >>on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
> >>Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
> >>otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
> >a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
> >methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
> that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
> *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
> far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
> >whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
> >training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> >in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
> many other places as well) *claim* that they use
> nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
> ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
> >you would realize that. It's not all cookies and
> >babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger sup****ter of R than Handsome
> Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
> in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
> that even R has its limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in
> the sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the
> > Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more
> than enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
> >proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
> >to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
> it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
> especially since the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
> training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
> need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again
> shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
> Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
> >from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
> >nothing for what I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good
> enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
> many of the rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
> because you apparently know so d
amn little about
> Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
> it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
> keep denying that those certain harsh methods are
> only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to
> SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given
> you direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just
> that. It's like you don't even care how stupid
> people think you are, or how devious you are, etc.
> That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
> if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
> remove the detonator to reply
|
