HOWEDY Phil,
"Phil Odox" <philodox@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:icor34pdqau710tiibg1vcluu4sp0d1203@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Wed, 28 May 2008 13:55:34 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
<mshaw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
>>Phil Odox <philodox@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>> On 27 May 2008 19:56:16 -0400, shore@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>>
>>> > Look, you really don't understand what you're
>>> > doing and you're making a lot of mistakes.
Yeah. HOWEver, makin DIFFERENT mistakes like HOWE
your newfHOWEND pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
animal murderin punk thug coward active acute chronic life-
long incurable malignant maliciHOWES MENTAL CASE
PALS recommend AIN'T gonna train your dog nodoGdameneD
better than they've trained their own hyperactive HOWETA
CON-TROLL dogs, as you've SEEN from their own POSTED
CASE HISTORIES which I've offered you which you've chosen
to IGNORE.
HOWEver, THAT'S to be EXXXPECTED here when dog abusin
cowards deal with the regular dog abusin cowards postin here.
THAT'S HOWE COME THIS IS Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory, Phil <{}: ~ ) >
>>> Such as? I've already mentioned that his house-
>>> training is going fine.
Yeah? And I've already mentioned dogs HOWEsbreak
INSTINCTIVELY at four weeks of age. IF your puppy's
HOWEsbreakin was "GOING FINE" HED BE FULLY
HOWEsbroken from DAY WON.
WOULDN'T HE, Phil <{}: ~ ( >
>>>The only problem I'm concerned with is his humping,
His HUMPING is a SYMPTOM of STRESS from MISHANDLING.
>>> and the majority of the responses I'm getting
>>> so far is to castrate the poor chap.
THAT'S ALL THESE MENTAL CASES KNOW HOWE TO DO, Phil.
>> What reasons do you have not to?
Yeah, "WHAT RESONS DO YOU HAVE NOT TO", Phil?
> I'm against carving and ***ually mutilating an animal
> to modify its behaviour, noise or appearance to suit me.
THAT AIN'T NO 'REASON NOT TO,' Phil. THAT'S
your own PERSONAL FEELINS, NOT SCIENCE, Phil.
EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION AIN'T
GOT NUTHIN to do with FEELINS and PREFERENCES, Phil.
FEELINS and PREFERENCES DON'T DICTATE the SCIENCE
of BEHAVIOR, Phil, they OBFUSCATE it.
HERE'S THE SCIENCE, Phil:
Subject: The Long-term Heath Impacts of S/N in Dogs
Session I: Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering
Proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Non-Surgical
Contraceptive Methods for Pet Population Control . www.acc-d.org
The effects of castration on behavior, particularly aggressive behavior,
were clearly questioned, indicating a need for further studies.
Dr. Verstegen-Onclin presented preliminary data concerning the
possible relation between early spaying and abnormal external
genital development leading to chronic vestibule-vaginal infection
and UTI. Since early-age spaying is a relatively recent approach to
population control in carnivores, long-term data are unavailable and
recent data are now slowly ac***ulating, allowing detection of side
effects not observed or not taken into consideration in the previously
published studies. Even if preliminary, these observations present new
questions and deserve further investigation.
Dr. Reichler summarized the results ac***ulated over 10 years in
her laboratory showing the relation between spaying and urinary
incontinence, a common side effect with poorly understood pathogeny
in the spayed dog. Directly or indirectly, through GnRH and the
gonadotrophins, acting at the periphery or centrally, the reproductive
axis seems to be involved in the regulation of continence.
Dr. Spain, who has been recently involved in many studies *****sing
the long-term risks and benefits of early-age neutering, presented
convincing data about the effects of spay/neuter on hip dysplasia,
cranial cruciate ligament rupture, long bone development, body
weight, diabetes, urinary tract infections, mammary cancer, and
several other conditions.
Looking for alternatives, we have been too often caught up by insisting
on an ideal drug or technique that would be without side effects, bias or
pitfalls. In reality, there is not likely to be one "magic treatment"
that
can
instantly, inexpensively and permanently sterilize a male or female cat or
dog with no risk of undesired effects.
At this stage, spay/neuter still remains the only acceptable standard to
control population in dogs and cats, but this "gold standard" is probably
not as efficacious, safe or devoid of side effects as generally
considered.
The presence of unwanted side effects or problems related to surgical
spay/neuter allows us to compare the value of this reference and to
consider the development of new alternatives with more realism.
Unlike what you will find in Spay/Neuter Fact Sheets, the health
impacts of spay/neuter that are discussed in this paper are all backed
up with citations to the veterinary medical literature. You can find
the paper here:
http://escregistry.kattare.com/healthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
http://www.neutering.org
Material that includes research data from 2006, 2005 was
presented at ACC&D's Third International Symposium, and
part of the slideshows presentedare available here:
http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/Session%20I.pdf
Issues regarding previous assumptions on what neutering
does as a 'benefit' are pretty well challenged in this data above.
Alliance for Contraception in Cats and Dogs (ACC&D) is a
nonprofit 501C(3) group involved in attempting to study, define
and resolve some of the problems that currently exist internationally
as they regard issues of animal population control.
"More than 120 representatives from universities, animal welfare
organizations, foundations, companies, and government agencies
from 11 countries gathered to share information and plan for the
future". Main site: http://www.acc-d.org/
"On the negative side, neutering male dogs if done before maturity,
increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer) by a factor of 3.8;
this is a common ancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a
poor prognosis.
increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6;
this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds
triples the risk of hypothyroidism
increases the risk of geriatric cognitive impairment
triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with
it the many associated health problems associated with obesity
· quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
· doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
· increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
· increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations
Hemangiosarcoma is a common cancer in dogs. It is a major
cause of death in some breeds, such as Salukis, French Bulldogs,
Irish Water Spaniels, Flat Coated Retrievers, Golden Retrievers,
Boxers, Afghan Hounds, English Setter, Scottish Terrier, Boston
Terrier, Bulldogs, and German Shepherd Dogs24.
In an aged-matched case controlled study, spayed females were
found to have a 2.2 times higher risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma
compared to intact females24.
A retrospective study of cardiac hemangiosarcoma risk factors
found a >5 times greater risk in spayed female dogs compared
to intact female dogs and a 1.6 times higher risk in neutered male
dogs compared to intact male dogs.25
The authors suggest a protective effect of *** hormones against
hemangiosarcoma, especially in females.
In breeds where hermangiosarcoma is an im****tant cause of
death, the increased risk associated with spay/neuter is likely
one that should factor into decisions on whether or when to
sterilize a dog.
Hypothyroidism
Spay/neuter in dogs was found to be correlated with a three fold
increased risk of hypothyroidism compared to intact dogs. The
researchers suggest a cause-and-effect relation****p26.
They wrote: "More im****tant [than the mild direct impact on thyroid
function] in the association between [spaying and] neutering and
hypothyroidism may be the effect of *** hormones on the immune
system.
Castration increases the severity of autoimmune thyroiditis in mice"
which may explain the link between spay/neuter and hypothyroidism
in dogs.
"Dr. Spain, who has been recently involved in many studies *****sing
the long-term risks and benefits of early-age neutering, presented
convincing data about the effects of spay/neuter on hip dysplasia,
cranial cruciate ligament rupture, long bone development, body
weight, diabetes, urinary tract infections, mammary cancer, and
several other conditions."
CONCLUSIONS
An objective reading of the veterinary medical literature reveals
a complex situation with respect to the longterm health impacts
of spay/neuter in dogs.
The evidence shows that spay/neuter correlates with both positive
AND adverse health effects in dogs. It also suggests how much we
really do not yet understand about this subject.
On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for
neutering most male dogs to prevent future health problems,
especially immature male dogs. The number of health problems
associated with neutering may exceed the associated health
benefits in most cases.
----------------------------
Early Ovarian Surgery Linked to Dementia
Wednesday, August 29, 2007
By MALCOLM RITTER, AP Science Writer
NEW YORK - Women who have their ovaries removed before
menopause run a heightened risk of developing dementia or other
mental problems later in life _ unless they take estrogen until age
50, a new study suggests.
Experts said the research needs to be confirmed by further study, but
the findings suggest another issue for premenopausal women and their
doctors to discuss as they consider ovary removal.
And if they decide to go ahead with surgery, they need to consider the
risks and benefits of taking estrogen to age 50, said Dr. Walter
Rocca, a Mayo Clinic neurologist and lead study author.
Hormone therapy has been linked to a greater risk of dementia and
heart attacks when given to women after age 65. But recent research
indicates that when given before menopause or just afterward, it
doesn't raise heart attack risk and may protect against dementia.
The study did not include women who had ovaries removed as part
of cancer treatment, and Rocca said the results do not apply to such
women. The work was published Wednesday in the online edition
of the journal Neurology.
Ovaries produce estrogen. Rocca said the likeliest explanation of the
study results is that removing ovaries causes a sudden deficiency of
that hormone, which in turn affects the brain.
Hundreds of thousands of women have their ovaries removed each
year in the United States. In women around age 45, approaching
menopause, ovaries are often removed during hysterectomies as a
precaution against developing ovarian cancer. In addition, some
women at unusually high risk of developing ovarian cancer have
ovaries removed without hysterectomies, as do others who have
ovarian problems like endometriosis.
Women younger than 45 often take estrogen after ovary removal
because of symptoms like hot flashes and concerns about developing
osteo****osis, noted Dr. Nancy Chescheir of Vanderbilt University.
But older women who have the surgery are less likely to start estrogen
therapy, said Chescheir, who didn't participate in the new research.
The new study found the risk of later mental impairment
was higher when the surgery was done at younger ages.
The research examined the fates of women who had one or both
ovaries removed from 1950-87, and compared them to other women.
Interviewers spoke with either the women themselves or somebody
who knew them, asking about signs of memory impairment and any
diagnosis of dementia or Alzheimer's disease.
Overall, the study found impairment or dementia in 150 of 1,489
women who'd had ovaries removed, versus 98 of 1,472 women
who hadn't. That indicates nearly a 50 percent increase in risk.
A second study, which included about 2,300 women who'd had the
surgery and about 2,400 who hadn't, found about a 70 percent
increased risk for Parkinson's disease symptoms like tremors.
Still, that outcome was far less common than mental impairment,
and experts said the evidence behind it was weaker than that provided
in the mental-impairment paper. The Parkinson paper finding is "not
quite ready for prime time" in terms of affecting patient care, said Dr.
JoAnn Manson, chief of preventive medicine at Harvard's Brigham
and Women's Hospital. She was not involved with either study.
The mental-impairment paper suggests that a premenopausal woman
without a family history of ovarian cancer who has to decide on
whether to have her ovaries removed should ask her doctor whether
that step is really necessary, she said.
"It's very reasonable and im****tant to have that conversation with her
doctor," Manson said.
Chescheir noted that estrogen therapy carries its own risks, such as a
higher rate of blood clots and breast cancer, but that ovary-removal
patients younger than 50 may want to have a serious discussion of that
option after surgery.
Neurology journal: http://www.neurology.org
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
------------------------
>>> >You'd benefit quite a bit from taking a class.
INDEED?:
Noted trainer and author LeeCharlesKelley:
>"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>> Puppy cl***** are, generally speaking, detrimental to the
>> learning process for both the puppy and the owner.
Leah:
> I'm speechless.
> And with this statement, any credibility you still had
> with me has been flushed down the toilet.
Okay, but if you're not still speechless, then explain why
more than 60% of Americans who take their dogs to a puppy
class re****t that the dog didn't learn anything and that
the experience was basically a waste of time and money?
LeeCharlesKelley
-------------------
From: "LeeCharlesKelley" <kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:53:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Critical Socialization
> "LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Okay, but if you're not still speechless, then explain why
> more than 60% of Americans who take their dogs to a puppy
> class re****t that the dog didn't learn anything and that
> the experience was basically a waste of time and money?
Leah:
> That one's easy. Because they didn't PRACTICE.
<snip>
> if they don't continue to use what they learned after
> class, of course the dogs are going to regress.
"Of course?" You have a pretty low opinion of a puppy's
ability to learn and remember, even though they do it all
the time with no repetitions and no regression.
Or just maybe they *didn't* regress. Maybe they didn't really
learn anything in class because the kind of training you use is
DETRIMENTAL TO THE LEARNING PROCESS, as I stated earlier.
If it were real learning then the dogs
wouldn't, "of course" regress, would they?
Maybe you remember the example I gave of a dog at the
dog run who instantly learned a new behavior WHILE PLAYING,
and never forgot it.
Or the example I gave about my dog learning the command,
"Up the stairs!", once, just once, and has never regressed
or forgotten the lesson.
He'll still do it every single time, eleven years after he
learned it. Hang on, I'm going to take him out in the hall
right now, where his expecation is to go DOWN the stairs,
not up, and I'm going to tell him, "Up the stairs!" to see
if he really does still remember it . . .
Yep, he went right up the stairs when I told him to, so nope,
he hasn't regressed. I wonder why that is.
But then, I forgot: you believe that learning can't take
place without repetition, so "of course" the puppy will
regress if the owner doesn't keep up with the lessons.
That's only natural, right? Wrong.
Maybe it's time to give credence to the idea that there's
another model of learning -- which comes naturally to all
animals -- and which doesn't require repetition or the
expectation that the learning will regress.
Just a thought . . .
From: "LeeCharlesKelley" <kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:57:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Critical
>"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Yep, he went right up the stairs when I told him to, so nope,
> he hasn't regressed. I wonder why that is.
Leah
:> Duh. Because you USE the command regularly?
Who sez? I've gone years without using it at all.
And you're forgetting the fact that a day or two after I
taught him the command (inside the apartment building where
we lived at the time), I was walking Fred along a street on
the way to the park. I stopped in front of a brownstone, a
building we'd never been (and still haven't).
I gave him the command and he immediately obeyed it. The second
time in his life he heard it, he obeyed it, even though there was no
possible reason for him to do so, other than the fact that I told him
to.
Why?
I also taught him once, just once, not to cross a curb
without me. He hasn't forgotten that one either.
Why?
Leah:
> If the owner knows the method to stop the puppy from
> pulling on the leash, yet lets the puppy pull him all
> over the place, the puppy will not stop pulling on the
> leash.
> This is a no-brainer.
No, *this* is: If the puppy had actually been taught not
to pull on the leash, he would stop pulling on the leash.
I'm sure everyone here, if they thought about it, could
come up with their own examples (like the one I gave about
the dog learning a new behavior WHILE PLAYING in the dog
run) of dogs they've observed learning a new behavior once,
and never forgetting it.
It's the most natural form of learning there is.
But it requires that the dog be in a high-level emotional
state when the learning takes place, which is something
that *can't* be accomplished in a puppy class.
Puppy clases are, generally speaking, detrimental
to the learning process.
================
LeeCharlesKelley Wrote:
>From what I've read of Jerry's method it incor****ates
a completely new model of learning, which is based
(in simplest terms) on the idea that all behavior is
the result of finding a way to relieve emotional tension.
This is true not just for dogs but all animals.
You don't believe in the validity of this particular model
of learning? You don't think it makes sense?
Fine, I guess.
But it makes total sense to me.
And it made sense to Pavlov, too,
though not many people know this.
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement."
IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are
what reinforces any behavior.
Finn once saw a small mouse come out of a hole
atthe base of a tree. Needless to say his prey
instinct kicked in BIG TIME and he chased it
back into the hole. This was 7 years before
he died. Up until the very last time he walked
through that section of the park (an hour before
he went) he checked the base of that tree.
He saw that mouse exactly *once*....he never
saw it again. Don't we all have stories like
that?
Especially those of us with dogs whose prey drives are pretty intense?
And there are lots of examples that may not
even require the prey drive to be active,
just a strong desire to do something: a dog
who wants to escape from the back yard will
learn how to do it once and never forget it,
a dog who wants to jump on the couch or the
bed doesn't need any repetitions to "reinforce"
or re-learn the behavior.
If something is im****tant to a dog, he'll
learn how to do it. Once he learns it, he
learns it. The trick to getting him to
"unlearn" it, is to give him a more
emotionally satisfying replacement behavior.
With Oscar and the cat, the more satisfying
behavior was relating to me instead of the cat.
(He's a Lab, with a strong need for social
connections, so that was pretty easy.)
I've been experimenting recently with Jerry
Howe's method of using a sound distraction,
then praising the dog, without any physical
contact, for 15 seconds.
My initial reaction to his technique was that
it was silly to keep praising the dog that long.
I mean, Jerry's a nut, right?
But in every case except one, when I've followed
the exercise exactly, I've seen a definite
physiological change take place in the dog -
- yawning or stretching have been the usual
indicators -- and after only a few repetitions,
the dog often relaxes, curls up, and goes to sleep!
I've tried this on barking, counter-surfing,
separation anxiety, even two dogs who live
together and fight constantly. I was pretty
amazed when I saw this little Boston give up
her aggression and start to yawn!
It's too early for me to be convinced that it
will work every single time with every single
dog, or that it will even have a lasting effect
on these dogs, but so far I think that it's
effective at reducing emotional tension, which,
as you know, I believe that all behavior comes
from the dog trying to find a way to reduce
emotional tension. If you give the dog a
replacement behavior that successfully reduces
emotional tension, the first behavior will no
longer be necessary and the dog will stop doing it.
------------------
>>> I don't see the need to take him to cl***** when
>>> I can train him perfectly well on my own.
INDEED? That's pretty presumptuHOWES of you, ain't it, Phil?
>>Apparently not.
AGREED, on accHOWENTA you've already started havin problems
and you're only on your first week owning the new puppy and you're
already blaming the BREED and planning on EXXXCESSIVE
EXXXORCISE to FORCE CON-TROLL of your dog's HYPERACTIVE
behaviors.
> No, that's false. I will be taking him to cl*****, on second thoughts,
> because I can't think of a better way to get him to socialize with
> other dogs.
Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS, Phil?:
leah is a "PROFESSIONAL dog trainer" who's own dogs
destroyed her own HOWES, ruined her marriage, attacked
her brother in law and bit her five times and are dog and
kat aggressive and can't be trained to heel, but that's the
nature of their BREED:
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 01:30:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Puppy click-training question
HOWEDY leah,
"Leah" <dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20040827190230.26011.00002353@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >"Bruce" <bmabr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > I kind of figured, so after about 5 minutes, Sasha is
> > throwing sits with a gleam in her eye. Cool!
> <g>
> It's great that you know how to use a clicker,
> but at her age, socialization is soooo im****tant.
Yeah. It could mean life or death, hunh.
> I'd strongly recommend getting her into a class.
Like the WON you sell?
> Not only will she be surrounded by strange people
Yeah. But you're a MENTAL CASE.
> and dogs,
Like your recent graduate student Rottie who JUST
RECENTLY MURDERED a little DEAD DOG in
the park.
OR do you mean like your "students" Bichons
who MURDERED her own pet bunny rabbit?
> but you will learn how to get and keep her
> attention during these distractions.
THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie RECENTLY MURDERED a little
DEAD DOG he MURDERED in the park.
REMEMBER?
> Canine Action Dog Trainer
> http://www.canineaction.com
Here's your SUCCESS with trainin dogs to BE NICE:
Subject: Really Bad Day
Date: 2004-03-21 17:34:07 PST
HOWEDY leah,
"Leah" <dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20040321194728.23546.00000101@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> The mom of a graduate student
BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You're no dog trainer, you're a FRAUD.
> interrupted my class,
Class??? You don't have trainin cl***** you
teach people to throw treats to dogs for mindless
unthinking behaviors and tell folks to jerk and
choke and shock dogs when bribing and avoiding
behaviors doesn't work an then you try to get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.
> in a state of shock,
AnyWON who'd trust you to train them to handle
their dog was in a state of shock or takin anti psychotic
meds before they started.
> to tell me that her rottie had killed a little
> dog at a dog park today.
Naaaah?
Tough break. R.I.P., dog.
> She wanted to know if she had to put him to sleep.
That's typical of a dog abusing coward, ain't it.
> Mack is the quintessential dog-park dog.
You mean he likes to PLAY.
> I've seen him play, with all sizes of dogs.
Yeah. A dog is a dog.
> He's gentle, friendly, non-dominant, non-aggressive,
> and has been going to the park weekly since he was
> a puppy.
And he's been jerked and choked and scolded
and punished and bribed since you began messin
with him at ten weeks of age.
> I was in too much of a state of shock myself
You mean, you was NORMAL.
> to get details (like which park and what exactly happened),
Yeah. That'll be REAL im****tant for trHOWEbleshootin
this behavior problem. Won't it, leah.
> but she said he chased him,
And MOM couldn't call him off cause IT won't
come when called nor will IT do anything else
unless MOM is danglin a cookie in front of him.
> picked him up and shook him,
Typical Rottie behavior, ain't it.
> then grabbed his brother.
SHOWENDS like he was just HAVIN FUN,
like when you jerked and choked him to train him.
> The other one survived.
Got LUCKY, eh leah?
> Man. I tell my students in every class that dogs
> are not little people in fur suits.
But that's just the begining. Then you teach them
to HURT and INTIMIDATE their dogs when they
can't BRIBE and AVOID their behavior problems.
> They are animals.
They're able to HOWEtwit you and your ilk, leah.
> They have no morals,
Perhaps that's just allelomimetic behavior?
> and don't know right from wrong
AMAZING? Chalk THAT up to allelomimetic
behavior, for SHORE.
> - only safe from not safe.
RIGHT. That's HOWE COME dogs ATTACK,
cause they're AFRAID of SUMPTHIN.
> But then prey drive
You mean, like when the dinner bell rings?
Prey drive ain't got NUTHIN to do with FEAR. Dogs chase
PREY to EAT, not have FUN. Dogs chase THINGS on
accHOWENT of the visual oral reflex, not PREY drive.
Unless they're chasin a bunny their PREY is in their food dish.
> rears its ugly head and really shoves the message home.
The MESSAGE is, you've HURT the dog to force control
over IT and THAT'S HOWE COME IT was AFRAID and
ATTACKED, not on accHOWENT of some IDIOCY
abHOWET PREY drive.
> Because I'd bet that's what happened.
You're a MENTAL CASE a LIAR and a dog abuser.
> This little white fuzzy guy whizzed by
> Mack, and his prey drive kicked in.
No. He was afraid he was gonna GET HURT for CHASIN IT,
so he ATTACKED and MURDERED IT on accHOWENT of
he knew he'd GET HURT for CHASIN IT.
> Plain and simple.
Plain an simple indeed.
> Not a bad dog,
Right. Dogs can't know from BAD behavior.
Dogs only respond in PREDICTABLE NORMAL
NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE
ways to situations and cir***stances of their
environments which we create for them.
> not a dangerous dog.
Not till NHOWE.
EVERY DOG IS DANGERHOWES.
> Just a dog. *Any* dog.
*ANY* dog is a dog and is dangerHOWES.
THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
doesn't HURT and INTIMIDATE and BRIBE them an
try to get HOWET callin THAT, trainin.
> I'm beginning to think that dog parks should
> be divided by size.
BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> Even in my class, if I have two puppies of
> vastly different sizes, I'm inches away from
> them while they're playing.
To INTIMIDATE and FORCE control when necessary.
THAT'S HOWE COME you can't TRAIN a dog to BE
TRUSTWORTHY. Like your own dogs...
> I'm not afraid of mouths, I'm afraid of feet - I
> do paw patrol.
You're a IDIOT.
> Especially if the big dog is a boxer. :}
BWEEEHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> In the park, nobody's ever close enough
> to monitor well enough.
Perhaps they should be required to wear shock collars?
> At least if two similar-sized dogs go at it,
> one's probably not going to kill each other
> with a mere shake.
Or put a eye HOWET.
> But it's so *easy* for a big dog to kill a little dog.
No, that takes a bit of EXXXPERTISE, like what
the owner PAID YOU FOR.
> What do you guys think?
You're INSANE and you're a FRAUD.
> I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.
It will, as you get MOORE EXXXPERIENCE.
> PetsMart Pet Trainer
You're no trainer, you're a FRAUD.
> My Kids, My Students, My Life:
Your own dogs bit you five times and
destroyed your HOWES and ruined
your marriage. You MURDERED your
own DEAD DOG Buck cause you was
TOO STUPID to put him on a salt restricted
diet for his congestive heart failure and fed
him pizza and french fries and then MURDERED
HIM cause you was TOO LAZY to walk him
every two HOWERS in the middle of the night
on those cold central Florida winters.
R.I.P. Dog.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> As far as training him goes, I can do that myself quite
> adequately for his needs.
Yeah? LIKE THIS?:
From: dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard
>"Mike E" m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"
Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}
PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he
twists things around in his own mind until he actually
believes what he's saying."
Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.
PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.
(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").
Full moon.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.
YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
cl***** since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.
> I will always remember the dogs.
Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
From: dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Leah)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Subject: I Saw A Baby Corgi Butt!!!
Okay, so the owner thought I was nuts. :}
A 9-week old corgi came into the store today. I said,
"I've heard that there's nothing cuter on earth than a
baby corgi butt, so I have to see," and kneeled down to
look at the backside of the pup.
Ohmygoodness!!! That *is* terminally cute!!!
PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/dogs0
From: dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Leah)
Date: 04 Feb 2005 03:14:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Dog fight, dog bite, aaaiiiieeeeee
>ceb c...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> I did yell NO!!! or STOP!!! or something like that.
> It seemed to have no effect. I wonder if a loud,
> long blast would work.
Stick your thumbs up their butts. No, I'm serious.
I've never done it, but I hear it works a treat. Gross
as it sounds, I'm going to try it if I ever need to.
--
Family Dog Trainer
"It's A Dog's Life"
HOWEDY leah,
"Leah" <dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20041109132430.06573.00000266@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> In any case, PLEASE do NOT respond to his posts.
The EXXXPERTS like professor SCRUFF SHAKE
dermer and dr plonksky of UofWI won't respond to
The Amazing Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of HE
DISCREDITS THEM every time HE QUOTES them.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAA!!!
The EXXXPERT professional dog trainers have
likeWIZE been IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and
DISCREDITED as incompetent dogs abusing
punk thug cowards and active long term incurable
MENTAL CASES and FRAUDS, JUST LIKE professor
SCRUFF SHAKE and dr plonksky and captain arthur
haggerty, lying frosty dahl, Master Of Deception
blankman, et al.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> Block them if you can, or at least ignore them.
THAT'S INSANE. You gotta do the Monkey Macarena.
You bums can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenendMOORE.
<snip BUNK and SKIP to The Monkey Macarena>:
Ain't hard to do:
leah wrote:
"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.
So as soon as he notices another dog,
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."
SEE?
> A little additional info...
NO PROBLEMO!:
leah wrote:
"She bit me on the nose. That was a true bite.
Not unprovoked, but still a bite. The snarling
and barking was vicious - the bite was a quick
snap, and the cuts weren't deep."
"Once I was holding her bone for her while she
chewed it (something she loves). She mistakenly
put a tooth in my finger instead of the bone."
(Of curse leah FORGOT to mention she JUST
FINISHED her POSSESSION AGGRESSION CL*****
for two weeks on her pronged spiked pinch
choke collar).
"The other time was something I re****ted here
because I thought it was funny. I was sitting on
the floor with my supposedly agile, coordinated
BC dancing around me, mouth hanging open with
tongue flopping goofily.
She tripped over my legs and fell tooth-first
into my forehead."
"Oh, okay. One more, I guess. When I had only
had her a few days, and she hadn't yet learned
not to nip during play, she jumped up and grabbed
my t-****rt, pinching some skin. It hurt but, again,
there was no blood."
"Leah" <dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20041106071325.11818.00000197@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> By the way, you're talking to our resident loon
> that we all have killfiled. If you want to have a
> conversation with him here, you need to put
> [eggplant] or [jerry] in the subject line so that
> you don't get killfiled along with him.
You forgot "NINNYBOY" as professor
SCRUFF SHAKE recommends.
> He's been posting the same abusive nonsense
> for years, and we really don't need to be reminded
> of his existence. :}
> >| ALL behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> This is not true. Neither is anything else he
> posts.
> Probably 90% of the regulars on this ng have him
> killfiled.
You mean the liars dog abusers cowards and
active long term incurable mental cases, like
yourself, leah?
-------------------------
Oh, bye the bye, speakin of liars dog abusers cowards and
mental cases, your newfHOWEND pathetic miserable stinkin
rotten lin animal abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic
life-long incurable malignant maliciHOWES MENTAL CASE
marquis de "READ KOEHELR FOR CONTENT" shaw used
to post WEEKLY WARNINGS to KILLFILE "The Unmentionable
Won".
HOWEDY marquis de "READ KOEHLER FOR CONTENT"
shaw, you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin dog abusin punk
thug coward active accute chronic life long incurable malignant
maliciHOWES anonymHOWES MENTAL CASE and dismal
failure as a electronics engineer *** illegal doggy day care operator,
"Mark Shaw" <mshaw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:g04p7j$fd2$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Run Fast, Run Happy.
>
> --
> Mark Shaw (And Baron)
Take your own advice and run along HOWETA here or I'll
re****t your ILLEGAL doggy day care to your zoning board
and Internal Revenue Service, marquis de "READ KOEHLER
FOR CONTENT" shaw, you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten
lyin dog abusin coward:
Here's what HOWER new readers NEED to know:
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: ms...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Mark Shaw)
Date: 2000/01/27
Subject: Re: To Jerry Howe and Other Professed Trainers!!!!!
In article <10413-3890B6D...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
asl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Melissa Wright) wrote:
>I have read all of the WEDTM, I do not agree with all of it, but some of
>it does make since. I do use noise distraction to a certain degree my
>self. I would also like to say, I read the Forced Fetch training from
>Oak Hill Kennel, If that is how Cindy Title Moore and Amy Dahl train, I
>wouldn't let them train my PIG let alone a dog. I would much rather
>train and have my dogs trained by Jerry Howe then twist my dogs ears,
>like you are told to do in this training.
You have been seriously misinformed. Moore and Dahl are among the
more competent people around here. You know all those FAQs posted to
rec.pets.dogs.info? Cindy is the one responsible for maintaining and
posting them. And neither of them are abusive.
***(Of curse not~!):
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should knee the dog in
the chest, step on its toes, throw him down by his ears and climb
all over it like a raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch choke collar
or pop him in the snout with the heel of your palm.
"Don't Let Your Dog Scream. Use Your Hand To Hold
His Muzzle Closed And Tell Him To Quit Moaning,"
Sindymooreon.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right, Either
They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very Stoic Dog.
Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch:
You Must Keep The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog
SCREAM" mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
lying frosty dahl wrote:
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Cir***stance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in im****tance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.
"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.
In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.
If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.
Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and gave the dog
two or three medium whacks on the rump with a training stick
while holding him partially off the ground. John then told Blackie
to sit, ran back to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies to SAVE
THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE. We're gonna
teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
----------------------------
SEE?
marquis CONtinues his lies:
As far as Howe, he's one of the LEAST competent people here, and
he's almost certainly responsible for misinforming you about the others.
What Howe and other bedwetters, wankers and PeTA-pukes do is
latch onto some technique or other intended to train a particular life-
threatening behavior out of a dog as a last resort, and claim that every
person who agrees that that method used in that setting is appropriate
is a horrible sadist.
This is libel, pure and simple, and if Howe keeps it up
he may eventually find himself in civil court.
***(Yeah, captain arthur haggerty DIED in litigation suin "The
Unmentionable WON" for "SLANDER DEFAMATION and
EMOTIONAL STRESS". Perhaps he **** the bed when I told
the judge he was a liar a dog abuser a coward a fraud and a
scam artist and if he DENIED it, he's a MENTAL CASE on accHOWENTA I got it
all in his own written words?)
Example: dogs who must work near rattles****s are best and most
quickly trained to leave them alone via electonic-collar training,
performed by people who are familiar with E-collars and competent
in their use.
***(That's ABSURD. To "train" a dog usin a shock collar the
dog MUST BE CONditioned to wearing the collar for a week or
longer. THAT'S NEVER DONE in those SCAM s**** clinics,
therefore the dog ONLY FEARS GETTIN SHOCKED while
wearing a SHOCK COLLAR when his abuser is standin there.)
This is analogous to slapping a child's hand when he reaches for a
hot stove -- a moment of very minor pain in exchange for a behavior
modification that will prevent major pain or crippling injury or even
death later.
***(marquis loves children as much as he does dogs.)
Let someone express that opinion here, though, and Howe will pursue
that person relentlessly, spewing hateful crap about how they're sadists
who "get off" on shocking and burning dogs and trying to sell people
his magic sound box (which apparently does not even exist) instead.
The man's a nut. Don't pay any attention to him. Don't take my word
for it, though -- hang around a little while, read others' thoughts on
him, and make up your own mind.
(Aside to Vagabond-Mom: seewhutimean?)
[posted and emailed]
--
Mark Shaw (and Maggie)
-------------------
From: ms...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Mark Shaw)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 23:00:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Anyone tried the Wits End Training manual?
In article <3532-3B895199...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(misty) wrote:
> I needed the info, it was offered free of charge
> and any questions can be asked of Jerry.
This is not true, unless you're willing to kiss his, uh, ring.
If you're not, he considers you his enemy -- no matter how you
really feel about him -- and will just abuse you.
Of course, his sheep have always ignored
this and will probably continue to do so.
--
Mark Shaw (and Maggie)anti-spam: change 'bang' to 'not'
------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
From: Mark Shaw (ms...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-Shock).
>> If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?
> "If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system,
> I have one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers."
Seems our pal marquis de "read koehler for content" shaw runs
an unlicensed illegal "cottage industry," outta his HOWES, a
B+B for dogs.
>> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing -
>> - more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with
>> owners walking their dogs.
My methods cure fence jumping and escape behavior in a couple
minutes without shocking and choking and crating and beating
and shooting "a good slingshot or a few BB's" as instructed
in our koehler book that we should read for content. ed w of
petloss dot CON recommends we read koehler, sez he could be
the world's best trainer.
>> I thought of raising the fence a foot or so,
Because there's no way to train a dog not to jump a barrier.
>> but don't think that'll solve the problem.
Course not. Neither will hurting him, that'll
make IT want to escape even MOORE.
>> I've tried watching her outside, and give a stern "NO"
>> when she props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
Course not. That'll make him try harder soon as you're not lookin.
>> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.
> I take it you're considering running the wire across the top of
> the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it may be
> worth a try."
Course. Might as well try to HURT the dog to force it not to
want to run away. Dogs run away from their HOWESES for the
same reason kids do... they're usually abused and neglected,
even despite the daily jerk and choke and shock training.
> Watch closely -- the one case where I saw a hotwire used
> in this fa****on caused the dog undue stress and frustration,
That was on one of your illegal customer's dogs who didn't know
you was fixin to BURN their Dane while you was giving him some
loving care. Those stupid bastards trusted you not to HURT their
dog...and you done your best, but just couldn't bear NOT to HURT.
> and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
Of course, marquis. That's what got Peach DEAD.
> So be prepared to take it down right away.
So he don't get caught, marquis? He's not shocking an illegal
boarding customer's dog like you were... marquis de "READ
KOEHLER FOR CONTENT" shaw <{}: ~ ( >
> That was a Dane, though.
Yeah. A cash customer's dog. You couldn't afford to return IT
with a case of nervous aggression...and you couldn't get caught
with a hotwire just in case the dog squeals on you by his new
nervous responses.
> With a Saint things might be different.
Yeah. Did you see CUJO?
--
Mark Shaw (and Maggie) anti-spam: change 'bang' to 'not'
--------------------
"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> how effective are these electronic fences in
> keeping a dog on a property????
Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.
Just hides under a desk in the house.
------------------------------------
"micha el" spam_yurs...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
in message
news:yIydnZpPsIzg6l_d4p2dnA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
it felt like to me when I got shocked by
Hope's collar.
It felt like a bomb going off in my
hand and forearm.
--------------------------
THAT'S HOWE COME Misty's DEAD DOG
Peaches got DEAD on us <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
From: misty (Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Date: 2002-01-23 07:46:16 PST
Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?
Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.
The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home
were: build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan
on putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.
Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning
anything. At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.
By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had
already ran away.
Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread is
mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days. I
stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated that
his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.
The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.
Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it in
my e-mail ( no storage otherwise on webby unless you put stuff
on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.
Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it on
Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!
I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to lose
another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with little
kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I still look
to see if she came home when we get back from trips. Maybe
Peach would still have ran away... I don't know and never
will....
~misty
-------------------
"misty" <Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote in message
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do
know she's not here with us. I really can't blame
anyone here for her loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it
because of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling
to accept the idea that my using a shock collar
could have any bearing on Peach not wanting
to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had
been keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
concern became how to keep them from running
off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled
in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the
world now <g> A Wits End Trained dog, one who
is completely housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff,
stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
================
misty" <Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and
no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want
to come back in the yard and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few
minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in
the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop
her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
when we walk around the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I
hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get
a regular fence then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to
keep my dog in our yard again.
The price was too high:-(
~misty
-----------------
From: Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(misty)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:44:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Anyone tried the Wits End Training manual?
I used the Wit's Ends Training manual to teach myself how
to interact with Zelda. The first read through made no
sense to me...the second time through, things clicked and
the little lightbulb glowed.
I trained Zelda to stay in the yard, not chase cats, to come,
sit ,down, stop chewing toys and to be quiet when she barks
at things she hears outside.
I don't care if 99% of the manual came from 99 other trainers...
I needed the info, it was offered free of charge and any questions
can be asked of Jerry.
One thing about his method, although you can "spot" train
with it, it works best by a pyramid approach.IOW start
at the beginning and go through the exercises in the order
he has them wrote.
The part about "non-physical praise" confused me until I
tried a little experiment. I petted Zelda and told her
what a good girl she was...she enjoyed it, tail wagging.
I then put my hand away from her (behind my back) and
praised her...she got very wiggly, ****ged me with her nose,
pawed at me and wanted more praise. Not very scientific,
I know, but it was interesting to me how excited she got.
I find that I'm starting to use Jerry's method to "train"
my kids as well:-)
~misty
My "daughter" http://community-2.webtv.net/Momisty/ZeldaAnneArensdorf/
My sons http://community-2.webtv.net/Momisty/Arensdorf14Acre/
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Anyone tried the Wits End Training manual?
On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:44:25 -0500 (CDT),
Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(misty) wrote:
> I find that I'm starting to use Jerry's method to "train" my kids as
> well:-) ~misty My "daughter"
> http://community-2.webtv.net/Momisty/ZeldaAnneArensdorf/
My sons
> http://community-2.webtv.net/Momisty/Arensdorf14Acre/
Hi Misty!
I had just about exactly the same experience with Jerry's manual.
I had visited quite a few dog-training web sites, and, while they
didn't recommend anything too harsh, they all emphasized that
I must "assert my dominance" over the pup.
Anytime I tried doing that (just once or twice) it produced a
distinctly negative result... The pup got scared and ran away.
When I took the approach of simply making myself into the most
im****tant and desirable thing in her world, she responded incredibly
well. Now I can even break off a rabbit chase instantly (which I do
NOT want to allow, as I live in a rural area with chickens and
livestock) just by calling her once in a calm, affectionate voice.
Your kids and your dog are adorable, BTW!
You can see my pup at
http://www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy
Check the "more pictures" link -- like your dog, Holly
is more than happy to do an "alpha rollover" when I use
the gentle, non-confrontational approach Jerry recommends.
Charlie
================
NHOWE GET THE HEEL HOWETA MY FORUMS
and TAKE THESE DOG ABUSIN MENTAL CASES
WITH YOU, marquis:
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Janet B <ja...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:34:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Fenced yard for escape artist
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:42:08 +0000 (UTC),
ceb <ce...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Any tips for the best fencing/containment system?
>--Catherine
>& Zoe the cockerchow
split rail w/wire with the IF backup
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
-----------------
From: d0006...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Julia F N Altshuler)
Date: 8 Apr 2001 12:27:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost dog - Pointe-Claire, West Island of Montreal
I know this advice is late, and I hope it's not hurtful at this point,
but we got an electric fence Cubbe, and it's working great.
She used to escape the regular fence and cause us all the anxiety
you're currently going through. Every time we though we'd thought
of everything to make the fence secure, she'd find another way out.
The wire for the electric fence now goes up next to the real
fence so she gets zapped if she goes too near.
Now she can enjoy running around her yard but can't get close
enough to the fence to figure out a way under, over or through.
Best wishes. I really do know what you're going through.
--Lia, building good memories with Cubbe --"
---------------------------
GOOD MEMORIES LIKE THIS:
"Might Cubbe Be Ready For Harsher Training Techniques?
I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at
the beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help:
http://tinyurl.com/fbqnw
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
LIKE THIS LYIN DOG ABUSIN MENTAL CASE:
From: ms...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Mark Shaw)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 23:00:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Anyone tried the Wits End Training manual?
In article <3532-3B895199...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(misty) wrote:
> I needed the info, it was offered free of charge
> and any questions can be asked of Jerry.
This is not true, unless you're willing to kiss his, uh, ring.
If you're not, he considers you his enemy -- no matter how you
really feel about him -- and will just abuse you.
Of course, his sheep have always ignored
this and will probably continue to do so.
--
Mark Shaw (and Maggie)anti-spam: change 'bang' to 'not'
------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
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