"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:ZeWdnfG9tpEGS9bVnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Paul E. Schoen wrote:
>>
>> Do you think dog aggression is an innate trait that will always be
>> present, or is it something that can lessen or even disappear under the
>> proper conditions of training and socialization. ...
>> So, was Muttley ever really dog-aggressive? And if so, has he just
grown
>> out of it, or has his more stable environment with me, and additional
>> socialization, made him more confident and no longer dog-aggressive?
>
>
> I'm no expert, so I'm not the one to ask. The only suggestion I can
make
> is not to be so quick find causes for dog behavior in complex
> human emotions.
Yeah:
"Might Cubbe Be Ready For Harsher Training Techniques?
I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She*trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
> Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
> is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
> keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
> up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
> and the vet agrees.
> --Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help:
http://tinyurl.com/fbqnw
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
"Cubbe Got Out In The Neighborhood Leashless: It Was
Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With Her Usual
ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To Give Cubbe
A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap. I don't even think she broke
the kid's skin and as far as I'm concerned, it was the kid's own
fault. Jim ran out and got control of Cubbe right away. I got
Ellie some alcohol and a bandage. The scary thing is that,
even though the damage is minor, it does qualify as a bite
since Cubbe did mean to do it.
I guess I should just learn from it and never let Cubbe
greet someone like that again, but I'm horribly torn up.
I've said that I would never keep an aggressive dog. Now
the whole issue is so complicated. Cubbe is great even with
kids when we meet them in the neighborhood."
AND THEN Cubbe ATTACKED TWO CHILDREN
standing in her SHOCK ZONE inside her HOWES
and an innocent child at the park!
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
>> We've worked with the problem to some extent and managed it more.
Oh, INDEEDY~!:
"We got Cubbe in 1998. I immediately took her to a dog training
class that I guessed would be similar to the one Jim took Sheppe to.
Right from the start I was unhappy. I was following instructions to
the best of my ability, making no progress, and was pretty miserable.
I started posted here then. He Who Shall Not Be Named started
posting at the same time, and the group was in a stranglehold
while people dealt with that.
I finished that 6 week course and tried another. That one was at a
nearby community school. The teacher was better, more observent,
and still teaching leash pops. I wasn't willing to call them a bad
thing because they'd worked for Sheppe. I hadn't realized yet that
they weren't going to work for Cubbe.
"I was starting to realize that Cubbe's troubles getting along with
other dogs was going to prevent her from learning anything in group
cl*****. "
"They also suggested I ask my veterinarian for suggestions
for in-person training. I got in-person clicker training help
and started having fun with Cubbe practically overnight.
Cubbe and I both took to it."
"I think of the way Cubbe is so awful at the vet. It is embarrassing
to have to muzzle your dog, but from Cubbe's perspective, she's just
defending herself, and I've come to admire her for that. All she
knows is that woman is trying to hurt her, and she's taking reasonable
measures in defense. The bad news is that the vet re****ts no
improvement in her fear during the exam and shots.--Lia"
"Cubbe is highly sensitive. She knows she's going to be hurt and
wiggles and squirms and might bite if she weren't muzzled. we put
her through a number of tests for parasites and had to knock her out
to look into her ears. There's also the problem with looking at Cubbe's
teeth when she's not anesthetized. Jim and I can open her mouth with
no problem, but she's a wild woman at the vet.--Lia"
"Cubbe is a fear biter, but not, I think, an incorrigible one. She
needs a muzzle at the vet. I have to be super careful with her around
children. She's snapped at children (never breaking the skin). I
frequently have to tell kids that they can't pet my dog. (That's why
yesterday's story about her being subjected to a patting was a happy
unusual one.) She's always on a leash outside. We're managing the
situation and doing our best. She's also my dog, and I'm not about
to put her down for her crimes.
I'm guessing that the idiot whose dog attacked the kid feels the
same way about her dog as I feel about mine. I wouldn't say that
the situations are the same, though. What that dog did to that child
is on a whole 'nother scale. --Lia "
"I'm extra nervous because Cubbe is so fearful about being
cornered and of quick movements. I know Cubbe can snap
in fear. She's always had issues with cats and children that
weren't accurately represented on her intake sheet either.--Lia"
"I guess I should just learn from it and never let Cubbe
greet someone like that again, but I'm horribly torn up.
I've said that I would never keep an aggressive dog. Now
the whole issue is so complicated. Cubbe is great even with
kids when we meet them in the neighborhood."
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
>> She's better with other dogs than she used to be but not trustable
>> around them. She's never been in an all-out dog fight, but that's
>> because we're so careful to keep her away from other dogs.
Well, that's NOT EXXXACTLY true, either:
From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Cubbe re****t: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST
Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe. For a week he's been feeding me glowing
re****ts about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.
Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.
I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companion****p of her own
species. Jim's re****ts were encouraging.
Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory. They sniffed as dogs
normally do.
Chief and Cubbe entered the front door. To my
amazement, all was fine. Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.
Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
like SITs).
Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together. He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.
Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief. She's not an experienced
fighter so I don't know if attack is the right word. She
was snarfing, making growly noises, jumping on Chief,
had her mouth on Chief's neck (on his back, behind his
ears) and basically not looking friendly, but I think if she'd
wanted to do real damage, she would have, and Chief
was fine, nary a hair out of place.
Naturally with us all right there, we were able to
intervene in seconds.
A second later, it was all over. Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance.
Jo and Chief went home. (I went with them for chat and
apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe story.)
Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people.
Might she have been guarding the balls Jim brought
out? Or was it the fact that we let our guard down for
a few seconds and she got scared of Chief when we
all weren't practically on top of her?
Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a
few seconds would have been better for a first try?
Or other theories?
Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe? Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?
--Lia
----------------------
"He Who Shall Not Be Named" DID warn liea *(AND YOU TOO,
paulie) what she was doin to her "RESCUE" dog Cubbe would make
her fear aggressive and neurotic, but liea PREFERRED to RE****T
"He Who Shall Not Be Named" to His ISP for HURTIN HER FEELINS
and then started posting daily and weekly WARNINGS for new reader
NOT TO BELIEVE ME.
LIKE THIS:
135 results for insubject: occasional post
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 03:46:53 GMT
Subject: OT: occasional post-this newsgroup
He *is* nuts. Don't answer him.
--Lia
This message is posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior (r.p.d.b.)
regularly and occasionally to other newsgroups including
alt.animals.dog, rec.pets.dogs.rescue, alt.pets.dog, and
rec.pets.dogs.misc. These are unmoderated groups meaning
that no one checks the messages to make sure they're on-
topic, civil or sensible before they go through.
The purpose of this occasional posting is to give information
about the newsgroup so that discussion about the newsgroup
itself is cut down and discussion about dogs increases.
Like so many usenet groups, this group has people who
post annoyingly and constantly, people who post angry
and abusive messages, people who post to irritate others.
It's up to individuals to decide which posters bother them.
Here are some guidelines that many people follow to
make this newsgroup pleasant and informative:
1. Use your killfile. A killfile (or filter) makes invisible
posts by any particular person or with any particular words
in the subject line.
The posts are still there, but they don't show up on the
screen of the person using the killfile. Look at
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
for instructions.
2. Don't make more noise. The only thing more annoying
than a troll is an otherwise rational person arguing with or
about a troll.
That's known as feeding the trolls. Please don't feed the
trolls. It really is insane to attempt rational discussion with
the insane.
3. Want to exercise your right to free speech and argue
about or with trolls anyway? Put "ninnyboy" in the
subject line. That way the people who want to join the
fracas can, and those who don't can opt out by killfiling
"ninnyboy." If you don't do this, expect to be killfiled
yourself. [Jerry], with the brackets is also a recognized
signal.
4. Figured out that arguing with trolls is useless but
still want to talk about trolls by referring to them in
the third person? Put "ninnyboy" in the subject line
then too. That subject is boring too.
5. Trim quoted posts to include only the part you're
responding to. Quoting an entire long post in order to
respond to only a small piece of it is annoying. Again,
if you don't do this, expect to be killfiled.
6. Understand Candace. Candace is an automatic
program that answers troll posts automatically,
repetititively and relentlessly.
Most of us find these posts boring after a
short while and killfile it too.
That's O.K. You can't hurt its feelings.
7. Show no fear. Have a question or need to admit that
you've made errors in dog training in the past? This is
still a good place to come for (often contradictory) advice.
Use your own judgment to decide what advice to follow
and what not to. No harm can come to you even if people
vehemently disagree, call you names or repost your old
messages.
8. Label off-topic threads as "OT." A label helps people
decide what to read and what not to.
9. Check the F.A.Q. for answers to frequent non-
complicated questions.
10. Don't post pictures. This is not a binary newsgroup.
That's plain text only, no HTML, no attachments. If you'd
like, post a pointer to a website with pictures on it.
11. Don't crosspost. It's bad enough when someone posts
something dog related to all the groups having to do with
dogs. It's worse when totally unrelated groups get tossed
in the mix. Feel like you absolutely have to jump in on
something that's been crossposted to unrelated groups?
Erase the extraneous ones when you answer.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:53:18 GMT
Subject: OT - Should I bring back the occasional post?
The subject line says it all.
When I started posting the occasional post, the idea
was to help new people understand what's going on with
the annoyances on this newsgroup
I wanted to help them understand that anything they had
to say on the subject had been said before, wouldn't do
any long term good and would bore a bunch of people in
the short term. I stopped because I wasn't sure I was
accompli****ng my goal. Now I'm not so sure. I'm seeing
so many unmarked arguments with the annoyances.
Any opinions?
I'm not taking a vote, but I do care what the regulars think.
For new people, the occasional post is as follows. Do you
think that seeing it when you first started posting would
have helped?
Would it be more useful if it weren't so precise and wordy?
Maybe something shorter? I'm thinking it needs an update.
--Lia
-------------
SEE?
|
