HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka not so handsome,
not so happy, not so gentle, not so manly, jackass,
not even jack morrison aka joey finnochiarrio aka
howie lip****z aka BIG DADDY aka DOGMAN,
a.k.a. *****MAN, you pathetic miserable stinkin
anonymHOWES malignant maliciHOWES lyin dog
child an spHOWES abusing punk thug coward active
accute chronic life long incurable mental case and
paranoid homophobe, misogynist, puppy miller and
shock collar salesman,
"Jack "Crackpot" Morrison" <handsomejackmorrison@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
message
news:qatn54532at1knbfpp2p8gorjjtjnk8tik@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:32:47 -0700 (PDT), Mike Franklin
> <mkfrnkln@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>DelusionalDimensionsRecovery...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>>
>>[snip strange rambling rant]
>>
>>Uhhh..... Huh?
>
> Mike, do yourself a favor and killfile the guy.
You want mike to KILLFILE "the guy" who IDENTIFIED
EXXXPOSED an DISCREDITED *you* at the pathetic
miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin child an
spHOWES abusin punk thug coward mental cases you
ALL are??:
Here's professor dermer pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
Date: 2001-08-14 17:15:25 PST
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
mattburns...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but Jerry
has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge newbies to
attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I
have learned much. They include: Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl,
Diane Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold,
Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth Mays,
Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah
Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane Webb, and Terri Willis.
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin-
-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
----------------------------------------
Seems EVERY WON of those from whom professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face for 5 seconds and
lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer "has
LEARNED MUCH" is a PROVEN LIAR and DOG ABUSER.
Here's professor dermer's LAST POST to my forums:
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and sup****t your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establi****ng a nonprofit
charity to fund your im****tant work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/
Behavior Analysis Specialty/Department
of Psychology/University of Wisconsin-
Milwaukee/Milwaukee,WI 53201der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
-----------------------------------
> Think of him (Jerry Howe) as a crazy uncle that almost
> all of us keep hidden away in the attic (i.e., in our killfiles).
Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS?:
"I Actually Had A Great Aunt Who's Father Locked Her In
Her Room Back In The Twenties Because She Was Simple,"
lois edwards, ACTIVE INCURABLE MENTAL PATIENT.
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION
"KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS,
DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"
From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-****rt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Here's someWON who LEARNED THE HARD WAY:
From: Momi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?
Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.
The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on putting
a modular home here within the next few years... put more
fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs could play
bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.
Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.
At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.
By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already ran away.
Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread is
mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days. I
stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated that
his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.
The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.
Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.
Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!
I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to lose
another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with little
kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I still look
to see if she came home when we get back from trips. Maybe
Peach would still have ran away... I don't know and never will....
~misty
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given you a bum
steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of losing their
careers and reputations.... Jerry.
Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and
sharing...J;~)
AND LIKE THIS?:
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
---------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is im****tant - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn CONtinues:
"My last paying "job" was as Exec. Dir.
of the local Humane Society, I used to
work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft
I TOO HAVE A BIPOLAR MOOD DISORDER
(MANIC DEPRESSION) I ALSO CARE ABOUT
DOGS COMMUNITY IS AN EVOLUTIONARY THING
From: Chris Kosmakos (chris...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: complaints and goodbye
Lisa K. Baird (lba...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility
: for their own actions, wouldn't life be grand?
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
================
Perhaps you remember mary beth from the INSANE ASYLUM?:
Subject: Dee says thanks (Ninnyboy) warning
From: MaryBeth
Date: Mon, Feb 21 2000 12:00 am
Hello Terry,
Before you take any advice from this character, Jerry Howe,
I'd ask you to look atother ppl's responses to him, not just mine.
This is not a personal grudge with him, it's just that I'd like
everyone to be fully aware of the type of person you're dealing
with.
You will see that some of his OWN words, below, make him out
to be a little on the weird side. Follow his advice at your own risk.
If you find yourself disagreeing with anything he says, he will
verbally abuse you, accuse you of dog abuse, and finally, most likely
will advise you on exactly how to commit suicide. Not something I'd
like to see anyone have to go thru. (We all have for over a year now.)
Sincerely,
MaryBeth
OR did you mean LIKE THIS, mary beth?:
Date: 2002-06-04 22:04:48 PST
HOWEDY marybeth,
"MaryBeth" <marbe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3cfd7144$1_9@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "BethF" <d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:ufqsc1kr41g632@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Hi Valerie
> > most of us have jerry killfiled so he doesn't
> > get under our skin at all
You read my posts first.
> Exactly.
BWWWWEEEJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA!!!
Got me laughin in Spanish...think I'm gonna pee myself.
> But then again only howdy thinks he does.
You've made HUNDREDS of daily posts warning
people about me, as have sindy 'don't let the dog
SCREAM" mooreon, lying lois, ed w of pet loss dot
CON, and a few others.
You and your Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Thugs
are having a group psychotic breakdown just like
lyingdogDUMMY did.
You've been JERRYIZED.
There is a cure and I guarantee you I'm gonna like it.
> And, LOOK!, so does "Val".
Val came here Friday with a dangerous dog and
now has a perfectly well behaved dog 3 days later.
And he'll keep gettin better till he sits the bed.
> Hehehe
Val writes Monday, 6/3/02:
Well, for what it's worth, I am praising without
physical contact and she does seem to listen
better than when I would praise with it. I agree
that it is a distraction.
Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from
her since I started the Witts End.
"MaryBeth" <marbe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3cfcdcfb$2_8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"MaryBeth"
<marbe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message:
> > Didja also see that he has 'morphed' into Valerie M.
> > Holmes ?????
> Note: I am not saying there isn't a VALID Valerie
> M. Holmes, but this one lives in howdy's home.
> MB <G>
From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (Holme...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST
HEY!!!
There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian who is a real
sweet dog with a few issues that I am working to resolve after
adopting her from a shelter she spent 2 years in. All I want
is to get some decent help for my dog.
There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual. My dog has
ACTUALLY been responding to her training. The deal is you
have to seperate your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the manual what you
want.
Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out of the whole Jerry
thing. I have to say the guy is pretty clever, you're letting
him get under your skin. It makes for a very amusing game I
think. I'm sure he would agree, or he wouldn't be playing
everyday. He also wouldn't be playing if he didn't believe
that his method of training weren't valid.
Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes, but so far, using the
Witts End, I have gotten my dalmatian to listen to me, to look
to me for direction, to wait for me to say when. I have
changed her from an aggressive dog to one who is willing to
please her owner, willing to listen, willing to assume her
role in the pack.
The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking
P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing into me, ok?
------------------------------------
MaryBeth FMVP (former most valuable psycho)
(super psycho ***** lunatic queen of the
mentally ****ed in the head)
Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid,
MaryBeth has suffered from or been:
TIDAL WAVES OF PMS
suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS,
mood swings, turned into a hermit, bloated,
just real angry, hubby afraid of her, high
blood pressure, divorced, "raving *****"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze," chain
smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy
brain, lack of concentration..etc.
severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...
MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic ***** from hell
I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH
"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."
"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.
You become another person, if it's not the
correct med for you.
--All the best,
MaryBeth
DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER
"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."
"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."
--MaryBeth
ME NOT SO *****
"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido
into the dead zone and I had no real emotions,
like not laughing at funny stuff, couldn't cry
either.....except about my suicidal thoughts
(but at the time I thought there was no other
way out)."
--MaryBeth
NEW TO GROUP
"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today.
I talked with RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50
mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid. They
re****ted none. Not sure about the prozac tho.
Gonna poat a new message to intorduce
myself :)"
--MaryBeth <still feeling
like herself> <G>
WASTED 10 YEARS
"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost
many many treasured ppl and things. Please
don't do the same. (((((((SCOUT))))))))))
--MaryBeth
WAS HORRIBLE
"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and
worse. They put me on meds for it, and all
along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"
The depression got so bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone
thru"
--MaryBeth
=================
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> Every once in a while though, despite our best efforts, he gets out
> and scares the crap out of the neighbors, gets the dogs to barking,
> and we have to call 911.
You think COMPLAININ has been EFFECTIVE, tommy?
> Mostly it's because a passerby hears him up there, ranting like the
> lunatic he is, and mistakenly opens the door wide enough for him to
> get out.
And then he starts diggin holes, eh, tommy?:
"It Can Be Really Funny To Watch Shove His Nose Into The
Water; Hold Him There Till He Is Sure He's Drowning."
I LOVE This One. It's VERY Effective, It Absolutely Doesn't
Interfere In Your Relation****p With Your Dog, And Is EASY
And QUICK," tommy sorenson aka not so handsome, not so
happy, not so gentle, not so manly, jackass, not even jack
morrison aka joey finnochiarrio aka howie lip****z aka BIG
DADDY aka DOGMAN, a.k.a. *****MAN, you pathetic
miserable stinkin anonymHOWES malignant maliciHOWES
lyin dog child an spHOWES abusing punk thug coward active
accute chronic life long incurable mental case and paranoid
homophobe, misogynist, puppy miller and shock collar salesman.
This same tactic is taught by cindymooreon on her "faq" page on
k9web, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn at their Bay Area GSD
shelters, and lying frosty dahl, marquis de "read koehler for content"
shaw..., professor "scruff shake" dermer, professora "chin chuck
absolutely doesn't mean slap" gingold, ron hardin, and much, much
moore RECOMMEND)***. j;~}
> Help us, Mike, by closing the door on him again (by putting him in
> your kill file and/or refraining from replying to any of his posts),
> otherwise you're going to end up in the attic, too.
You mean, you and your MENTAL CASE DOG ABUSIN
COWARD PALS will KILLFILE mike if he talks to "The
UNMENTIONABLE WON," tommy?
Hey tommy? HOWE COME you don't tell mike to treat submissive
urination like HOWE you do the HOWEsbreakin backslider?:
Here's tommy soronsen aka lyindogDUMMY
BEATIN a dog to HOWEsbreak IT to SAVE
IT'S LIFE. But FIRST, a little good koehler
trainin:
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by
the mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
"Housebreaking Problems:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the op****tunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid
correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is im****tant to your future relation****p that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much puni****ng.
Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an op****tunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves
you no other course than to punish him sufficiently
to convince him that the satisfaction of his
wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the
punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish
him again for the same thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.
It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
kris_br...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Good books huh?
Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
> Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
> tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
(i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do
it at the wrong time, etc.
> or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> 5 minutes of his punishment?
If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
quickly than it is to do it incrementally and half-
heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
more discipline.
> Maybe you liked when they recommend these
> beatings for housebreaking accidents, chewing /
> destructive behavior, stealing, trying to get on
> your bed at night and dog on dog aggression.
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating
a dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin
does *not* constitute a "beating."
I'm sorry if you don't agree.
And each of those behavior "problems" needs
to be looked at in its proper context.
A quote from the Monks:
"We repeat, these situations may merit physical
discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
every individual dog and situation, we feel obligated
to emphasize from the outset that discipline is never
an arbitrary training technique to be applied to each
and every dog for all offenses. We do, however, believe
that physical and verbal discipline can be an effective
technique.
The best policy if you experience any of the above
problems is to consult a qualified trainer or veterinarian
or evaluation of your individual situation....
"If discipline is decided upon as a training technique,
it should be the proper technique. We feel we have
developed several methods that depend less on violent
physical force than timing, a flair for drama, and the
element of surprise.
We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map
out these methods, rather than simply skip the topic
because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know
what to do."
In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
For example, they do not recommend using physical
discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only
on those rare occasions when an already reliably
housebroken dog is (after careful evaluation) deemed
to be soiling the house on purpose, backsliding, etc.
I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It
was either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog
was going on a one way trip to the pound.
Being the kind, compassionate trainer that I am, I
was prepared to do whatever it took to get this dog
house-trained and save his life.
After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
(no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
myself.
So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
-- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove
the detonator to reply via e-mail
BWEEEAAAAHAAAAHAAAA~!~!~!
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>(DogStar716) wrote:
> >>> Never mind dogman :)
> >> You too? Some folks just never learn.
>
>>>> Uh huh :)
>
>>> One of the signs of mental illness
>>> is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
>
>> PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
>> list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
>> matter how loud you scream otherwise.
>
> May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be
> on a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his methods.
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that
> not every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about
> as far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
> >http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware
> that whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR
> based training:
> "Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> You cannot use PR only.
Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
You know, the PPers.
And they do it quite loudly, too.
Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
you would realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
There is no stronger sup****ter of R than Handsome
Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
that even R has its limits.
You'd know that too, if you didn't
have your head in the sand.
> But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
They have behaviorism on their side, and
that's more than enough.
> I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs
> a proper leash correction as I do not rely on a
> leash to control or teach my dog.
That may or may not be suitable for your needs,
but it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
especially since the advent of leash laws.
Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
need of a leash.
*(THAT'S HOWE COME tommy
SELLS SHOCK COLLARS)
That you apparently don't know that, once again
shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
Koehler you are.
My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
nothing for what I don't like.
Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
rest of us.
> Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
informed discussion with you.
PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
keep denying that those certain harsh methods are only
for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE
A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given you
direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just that.
It's like you don't even care how stupid people think
you are, or how devious you are, etc. That can't help
your cause any.
You'd think that you'd at least want to
*appear* to be honest, even if you're not. -
- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
to reply via e-mail
--------------
NO PROBLEMO tommy.
"Sigh", tommy? Seems your manic depression is re-emerging, eh?
Perhaps you need your anti-psychotic medications adjusted, tommy?
Well, at least your obsessive compulsive spittin has diminished <{}: ~ ) >
Seems the ONLY thing these dogs lacked was a CARING
DOG LOVER like yourself to jerk choke shock bribe crate
intimidate surgically ***ually mutilate to make them GOOD
CITIZENS, eh, tommy??
Oh, an THANKS for all the ADVICE!
Here, permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to give
you a hand with that tricky little pin, tommy...
There. GOT IT! NHOWE HERE, HOWELD THIS, tommy.
That's FIXED. ENJOY!
Adios, tommy...
NHOWE START WALKIN THE WALK.
Oh, but don't trip over the puppy, tommy!
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
The World's CRUELEST Trainer,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C
G-R-A-N-D
M-A-S-T-E-R
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
|
