Re: Stone Bruise (was Re: lameness question)

On Jul 11, 7:04=A0pm, Bill Kambic <wkam...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:55:26 -0700 (PDT), LandShark

> What pushes the lady a few degrees off plumb is her RABID defense of
> the theories of Pete Ramey

LOL.  Right.  Pete is somebody wh doesn't know much.  Um, yeah.
Furthermore, rabid?  You are certainly entitled to your opinion but
jeeze, if this is rabid, I'd hate to say what you'd think about
somebody who really was rabid...

> (he could fix my mare with frankly average
> feet so she could go barefoot even though her hoof quality is is no
> better than average; unless the boy has perfected gene splicing for
> hoof tissue that's not going to happen).

I'm just sayin', Pete is arguably the best barefoot trimmer out there,
and if you haven't worked with him, you can't say for sure your mare
can't go barefoot.

> She has fundamental contradictions in her postings. =A0She says that all
> horses can go barefoot, then backtracks and says a few might need
> shoes. =A0

All horses who are not totally screwed up already should be able to go
barefoot.  I have allowed that Sharons Super Sharp Sand is something I
have not personally experienced, but I have talked to a few
barefooters who say it's not a problem.  I guess unless we have them
ride at Sharon's place we'll never know for sure.  I think I have also
allowed that a horse with a fracture to the navicular bone or coffin
bone might do OK in a shoe, but I am very leery of them since I
believe they reduce circulation and you need circulation to heal.  I
have also allowed the show jumpers might need shoes so they can have
studs attached, but the new boots have available studs also, so that's
getting to be a moot point.

> She says that shoes cause injury but it's not cruel to use
> them. =A0

Lots of things cause injury to horses and it's OK and not cruel to do
it.  We all do the best we can since after all, an injured horse is no
good to any of us.  Furthermore I've said that sure, some horses are
shod their whole lives with no obvious problems - it's certainly not
cruel to use shoes if your horse is not having any obvious problems
from them.  I personally feel that I have learned enough to not to
ever want to shoe a horse again.  If you aren't on the same page as
me, that's fine with me.  Maybe the people I'm learning from are
wrong!  If I ever used shoes again, at this point in my understanding,
it would be because I want the horse to lose circulation and sensation
so whatever condition I've been trying to fix stops bothering him.  I
don't think that's a healthy way to exist, but maybe in a particular
horse's case it won't amount to anything over his lifetime, and if
nothing else was working, well I can't afford Pete Ramey.  :-)  So far
I am not in that position to need to reduce circulation and sensation
to my horse's feet so they can exist comfortably.  Do I think that's
what you guys are doing when you shoe horses?  I dunno; it's like
religion - who am I to argue that a Christian is not going to go to
heaven?  It's *THEIR* belief.  Maybe there will exist a heaven just
for believers, how should I know.  Do I think any of you are willingly
harming your horses by shoeing?  OF COURSE NOT.

> She says it's wrong to cause pain to horses with shoes

If the shoe causes pain, then sure, one should change something.  If
it's not causing pain, and if you don't believe it's causing damage,
then you have no reason to change anything.

> but it's
> OK to let them go sore for weeks at a time to "toughen" them up.

Yes, because that is for a purpose - healing and return of proper
function.

> And, while not a contradiction, let's not forget the time she gave a
> horse that was a hard loader to the guru, then posted the video, then
> admitted that the guru didn't teach the horse to load. =A0I mean, what's
> up with that?!?!?!?!

I don't know your objection; big whoop.  I have used trainers who are
good and trainers who are bad.  At least this guy was on public
display at the West Coast's largest equine event... I also never
saidthat "the guru" flat out did not teach the horse to load.  I said
he was better than anybody else who'd ever tried, measured by how
willing Jewel was to get in the trailer and how long she'd stay each
time.  I also said he did some stuff that I thought made it worse for
next time. I think if he wasn't on a time constraint and could have
kept working her, that day and the next and the next, that he would
have made a lot more progress - I do think he was a bit too
aggressive, and that, say, Clinton Anderson (or Dennis Reis) would not
have cracked her across the back for no good reason like he did.  But
the methods are basically the same - in fact Scott Purdum does all of
Clinton's exact exercises, not as well, and with different names.  At
least last year; I don't know what he's doing now.

> Flake? =A0Somebody without a clue? =A0Something else? =A0You tell me.

I don't know what flake means when you and Ray use it.  I always
thought the word flake referred to a person who said they'd be
somewhere or do something and then didn't...

As for a clue, I'll let the people who certify me, the people who use
my services, and my horses let me know how much of a clue I do or
don't have.  I'm still learning!  :-)

cindi