Re: Parrot worked to death?

\<jfma@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:eobme3hnljvua42mfis7dnaidtc75bpgrh@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:12:04 GMT, "M.J." <M.J.@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"M.J." <M.J.@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:X_DGi.68$6p6.34@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>> "Joanne" <Joanne@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>> news:13em0scnemhmb94@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>> "M.J." <M.J.@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> news:2aCGi.3046$Sd4.308@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> If  Dr.Irene Pepperberg is not mad she ought to stop,
>>>>> and seriously re-think what she's doing. to these birds,
>>>>> before another suffers a pre-mature death.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that such
>>>>> a rigorous curriculum that she's subjecting the birds to,
>>>>> must over time be extremely traumatic to the birds and
>>>>> in particular their brains.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no point in letting another parrot perish
>>>>> for the sake of teaching it to count to seven, or eight,
>>>>> or some other similar achievement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex, and Dr.Pepperberg's research has shown a lot,
>>>>> there is no point in streching it too far.  Besides she may
>>>>> get better results following a more leisurely path.  Had
>>>>> Alex lived another 10 or 20 years, he might have
>>>>> progressed farther.
>>>>>
>>>>> M.J.
>>>>
>>>> What are you basing this tirade upon?  The birds are not doing 
>>>> push-ups.
>>>> They are thinking.
>>>
>>>
>>> And thinking means the same thing for a human
>>> brain and a parrot brain, right?  Gosh, you lack
>>> imagination, Joanne.
>>>
>>>> Since when is thinking hazardous to health?
>>>
>>> Yours/humans, or a parrot's?
>>>
>>> Have in mind the bird was subjected to rigourous 8-12 hour
>>> training days.  Supposedly no vacations, few if any days off.
>>> Just constant training by a whole staff of graduate students etc.
>>>
>>> All in hope of testing the limits of avian intelligence!
>>> Well, until an unexplained and pre-mature death at 31.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I recall Alex being quite in control of ending sessions.
>>>
>>> Dr. Peperrberg was recently taking the bird to a more
>>> complex and mentally demanding level of training, i.e. teaching
>>> the bird 'compound words.'
>>
>>
>>I strongly suspect that recent efforts to take the birds
>>thinking to a human like level of abstraction ('compound words')
>>may have dealt Alex a final blow.  Complex abstract thinking
>>is the stuff of most advanced creatures- primates/humans.
>>
>     Bull crap.  Tell that to a squirrel that is trying to get to some
> bird food that some human is trying to make squirrel proof.


Tell that to a human POW who is being interrogated hours
upon hours, daily, for many weeks, and finally breaks down
to tell anything and everything, who and tells that if the enemy
broke his arms, or legs, or shot him he wouldn't have told,
but messing with his brain, through sustained mental stress
combined with sleep deprivation finally took its toll, and
caused utter breakdown.

We are talking human brain here, not parrot.

Alexe was in a way "interrogated" many hours a day for many
years.  It is ridiculous to even think that this lifestyle had no effect
upon him.

Of course the hypothesis that he was mentally worked to death
is just that a hypothesis, but since no cause of death has been
identified it is as good as anything else, perhaps even most plausible.

M.J.



> I suspect
> the  squirrel would laugh at you.  Maybe that is what they are doing
> with their chattering.
>
>>Dr.Pepperberg just started to introduce Alex's brain fully to
>>this new world of more complex human like thinking.
>
>     My girlfriend had a Quaker that put ideas together to an end
> result by his talking.  He knew that calling for "Jimmy" would bring
> her father and when he showed up at the cage he put that together one
> day out of the blue with "Freddy want" that he had been saying.  And
> when he was asked "Freddy want what" the Quaker responded with "Freddy
> want a cracker."  Which meant he wanted a Cheerio.
>     He called a member of his flock over to his cage told them what
> he wanted and got it without having put that sequence of events in
> motion before.  He knew exactly what he was doing and got it done.
>    Don't give me no crap about the bird being subjected to rigorous
> mental exercises to get it to communicate it's wants to a human in our
> language.  This bird went beyond compound words to thinking his
> actions through and getting what he wanted with complex phrases.
>     This bird also learned how to escape from his own cage  even when
> extreme measures were taken to keep him in.  While he was at a friends
> house being watched while their family was out of town, he escaped
> from his cage and was letting the rest of the birds that were being
> cared for out of their cages.  He learned a new right then.  "Phooey"
> became a word that he used when he tried something and got caught.
> Every time the person that was sitting him at that time would say
> "Phooey" when ever she tried to catch him and he avoided being caught.
> It is too bad that the bird escaped one day while his cage was being
> cleaned and was scared off by a squirrel and has not yet returned.
>     I have a seven week old Cherry-head conure that I can place on
> its back and will stay there while I scratch it's belly.  It has
> already  learned to get on my finger on command.  It has already been
> practicing flying and, today, surprised me when it actually pushed off
> from its perch and flew towards me, not very successful at flying but
> did manage to get to me without hitting the floor.  It hasn't quite
> got the lift thing figured out yet   Maybe it still has some baby fat
> to shed.  It did make the attempt and is learning faster than I
> thought it would.    I think it is even attempting to talk.  It is
> still being mostly hand fed.
>
>
>
>
> James F. Mayer
> President
> J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. 
> Surge Protection for Access Control
> E-Mail jfma@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma/
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.