Subject Robert D-an And UFOs. Dec. 15, 2007.
Here is a person who claims to know what our g-vernment
knows about UFOs.
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A video interview with Retired Command Sergeant Major
Robert De-n Phoenix, Arizona, May 2007 Shot, edited and
directed by Kerry C-ssidy and Bill R-an *Bob Dea-: It is
the most im****tant issue in my view in human history. It's
not merely that we're not alone but we have never been
alone.
...It's lucky like I said that I didn't end up in jail
because I drove my friends up the wall. I pushed my
s-curity clearance to the limit. I use to get into
c-assified file cabinets, sort through material and look
for photographs and reproduced things that should not have
been reproduced.
...If there had been a threat from these guys (pointing
upwards) whoever they were, it would have been over a long
time ago. As one of our old G-nerals use to say, "they
could have cleaned our clock from the beginning".
...Because when we started shooting at them they had a
unique way of eliminating all of the electrical systems in
our aircraft.
...But these guys could be walking up and down the
corridors of SH-PE headquarters or the P-ntagon or the
W-ite House.
Kerry Ca-sidy: Were they?
Bob -ean: I have always suspected that yes, they have
been.
...How do you tell C-ristian Fundamentalists that that
lovely man from Galilee two thousand years ago was a part
of that program?
...He tapped me and he went over to the vault and pulled
this thing out and he threw it on my desk and he says,
"Hey, this will wake you up. Read this."
It was "The *****sment".
He said when the old man read that story, or that re****t,
The *****sment, he said it hit him like a truck, hit him
like a ton of bricks.
He told me the Ge-eral threw his hat across the desk and
he says, "Do you know what the h-ll this means?
Everything we've got, everything we've done, everything
we've had... doesn't mean a d-mn thing."
...Monumental aggravation and frustration that the
gov-rnment had continued over all these years to l-e to
the people.
Start of interview
Ca-sidy: You're a real hero, you know, a real hero in a
lot of people's eyes because you came forward at a time and
said, "I've signed a note but you know, it doesn't matter,
come get me. I'm going to tell the truth because people
need to know.
Bob D-an: You said it, and I'll say it again, and I
shared it with Bill downstairs: I believed from the
beginning, and I still hold deeply in my heart, that this
is the greatest story in human history. This is a story of
who we are, how we came to be here, what kind of a species
we are and where we're going. It is the most im****tant
issue in my view in human history.
It's not merely that we're not alone, but we have never
been alone. We have had what I have shared many times. We
have had an intimate interrelation****p with advanced
extraterrestrial intelligence from the beginning of human
history. And that is dynamite.
I've tried to share what I've learned. And I told Bill
earlier I will tell you what I've seen, what I've learned
and what I've concluded. This will probably be, I really
sincerely believe, that this will be my last interview. So
I will share with you things that I strongly believe and
strongly hold that even today, it's the greatest story in
human history.
It involves who we are; it involves what we are as a
species. It involves how we came to be. Now for many, many
years, I held to the view that once we could get this out,
many of us who are mi-itary would say what we've seen,
we've learned, what we concluded. Experiences we've had
personally and I kept naively thinking, ah, once we get it
out, the public is going to clamor for more.
"Oh tell us more, tell us more, tell us more". Then the
go-ernment would respond by opening up and telling the
public the truth. Well, forgive me; I certainly have
learned my lesson. That didn't happen and I believe it
isn't about to happen because the story is simply too big.
This involves our origins as a species, as a r-ce. I've
almost reached the point where I am sympathizing with the
gov-rnment for not telling the truth. To a point where I
sympathize with the govern-ent by saying that the m*****
of people out there probably are NOT ready for the truth.
That the m***** of people probably couldn't handle the
truth, because the truth is incredible. It's dynamite.
I use an analogy about Pandora's box, and I know you're
familiar with the old Greek legend. This alien issue, this
extraterrestrial presence issue, is like Pandora's box. You
can't open it just a tiny bit. You can't just open the lid
and let a little bit out because if you open the box...
BOOM... everything is going to come out.
The m***** of people are going to demand more, more, more
and more. Which I believe they have a right to, but that
mass of information is going to be earthshaking, literally
earthshaking.
Wouldn't you consider yourself something of an ordinary
person? I mean obviously you‘re fairly extraordinary.
I've always thought of myself as a typical ordinary guy,
yes.
All right, and you handle it. So why...
Not easily.
Not easily...really.
K: Can you tell me what it was like?
B: Let me tell you that....
K: When you first found out....
B: I've known this for over 40 years.
B: When I first began to get some information of what was
involved, that to me was like a d-ug addict. You know I've
never taken drugs. Well, I smoke a little, and I drink
coffee, and I have a little bourbon now and then.
K: (Laughing)
B: But I tell you, I've never taken hard drugs.
K: Right.
B: It was almost like an addict, once I learned,
officially, from go-ernment do***ents what was taking
place. My G-d, I couldn't get enough! I couldn't learn
enough. I was voracious to get more and more and more. I
became a nuisance to my friends. It's a wonder I was able
to retire honorably without ending up in Fort Leavenworth,
which is a disciplinary barracks, by the way. It's a
p-ison, mi-itary pr-son.
It's amazing that I've gotten to this point in my life
without going to jail.
K: Okay... were you highly respected at the time when you
discovered this information? Would you say that in your
career as a mil-tary...
B: Yes, I had been given a Cosmic Top S-cret do***ent.
K: Right.
B: Which was and still is the highest security
classification that N-TO has.
K: Okay, but...Cosmic Top Se-ret. Did that mean to you
that you were going to be able to be let in on the sec-ets
of our extraterrestrial relations with other planets?
B: No, it simply meant that I was given access to a
mil-tary do***ent, a study that NA-O conducted from 1961 to
1964. When I got to SHAPE in Paris in 1963, I learned of a
study that was underway.
I'd had a Top Sec-et clearance when I arrived, which you
had to have to get to that particular assignment. It was a
rather choice assignment, by the way, Paris in those days.
I took my family, my kids went to high school in Paris. It
was a choice assignment, and not everybody got that
assignment. You were selected and you were analyzed and you
had to have so many little pluses in your box to get that.
K: I know but, Top Se-ret way back then? I mean were you
naive? Did you have no idea...
No, no, no.
K: ...when you first came across this information?
B: I had some suspicions, and I was curious about the
extraterrestrial issues.
K: So you had some suspicions way back in....
B: Oh yes. Oh yes.
K: ...in the 60s.
B: Well, I went into the Army in 1950.
B: I paid attention, and I used to read a lot, and I
always had a nagging suspicion that there was something
more going on out there than we were being told.
K: Did you know about underground bases at that point?
B: No, not at that time. Now being exposed to this SHAPE
study in 1964 was simply the appetizer for me. It opened my
mind to the point that, Oh my Go-, this is real! Not only
did I see re****ts and studies and analysis, and
photographs, there were autopsy re****ts that I was able to
study. Because there had been crashes and retrievals of
bodies, and all the rest of it.
K: So how many pages were in the re****t?
B: Oh, the study itself was about an inch and a half
thick.
K: Oh, so it was like a book?
B: Yes. Well, it was supplemented, sup****ted by about 10
inches of appendices and, what do they call them...
annexes.
K: Oh, really.
B: There were ten of them. So the study had laid out the
problem, as any mil-tary study will do.
It laid out the problem, purpose and the meaning of the
study and some of the conclusions of the study. And then it
referred to the annexes, which were the ones that had all
the details.
K: I see.
B: For example, there was an annex on retrieval of bodies
and autopsies - with photographs. So once I got a chance to
go through this thing with my Cosmic clearance, that
allowed me the access to it, in the vault.
K: At any time you can go back in there?
B: Well any time I was on duty in SHOC. SHAPE is Supreme
-eadquarters of Allied Forces in Europe.
SHOC is the Supreme He-dquarters Operations Center. It
was a w-r room. I worked in there regularly. I ran duty
rosters. I was a Senior NCO at the time, I was a Senior
Master Sergeant at the time, and my clearance allowed
me... I had a desk in SHOC. I had a desk in the operations
center over in the corner, and I ran the duty rosters and
I was in charge of giving assignments and all to all of the
lower enlisted men. I even ran a duty roster for the
controllers, which were O-6 rank. Colonels, Captains in the
N-vy. We were in the middle of a b-oody cold wa-.
Part 1.
John Winston. johnf2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Robert D-an. Part 2. Dec. 16, 2007.
This talks about us shooting at the UFOs.
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K: Okay, so it was during the Co-d W-r.
B: This was the 1960s. I arrived in 1963. The study was
completed in 1964. The Warsaw Pact and NATO were lined up
along a divided Europe. We were bristling with arms. We had
fifty divisions here. The Soviets and the Warsaw Pact had a
hundred divisions here. World War III was just moments
away. That's how close it was. Young people today like
yourselves cannot imagine what that would be like.
K: So this is a serious desk that you'd got. In other
words it's a lot of responsibility.
B: Yeah, I worked in the W-r Room. I had access to the
vault and my clearance allowed me there.
K: So we're in the middle of what's called the Cold -ar,
and you're reading about our relation****ps and interactions
with alien r-ces.
B: Well, let me give you some reason first of all why
this study was concluded. In February of 1961 there was a
massive flyover of unidentified objects, coming out of the
East from the Soviet Warsaw Pact area, flying towards the
West, coming over our lines, over N-TO lines, over Germany,
over France. These objects were very high, very fast, in
formation, obviously under intelligent control.
K: Did you see this?
B: They were circular disc shapes.
K: Did you see it?
B: I didn't, no. I wasn't there in '61.
K: Oh, was it filmed?
B: Oh yes, we had film of it.
K: Really. How many were there?
B: The point is Gordon C-oper, whom I'm sure you're
familiar with, one of our famous astronauts from the old
years, Gordon's gone now. But Gordon shared with me one
time and he shared it publicly. He said, "When I flew over
Germany in the 50s, we'd see these things all the time. We
wondered what they were because it was obvious they were
under intelligent control. They would fly over our lines or
they'd come out of the Soviet sector flying west". As I
said, over Germany, France, England. They'd turn north over
the southern coast of England, and then they would
disappear off of NA-O radar over the Norwegian sea.
K: Okay and I know, or I assume the gove-nment figured
they weren't Soviet, it that right?
B: The go-ernment didn't know from the very beginning -
at least NAT- didn't - what they were. We thought they were
Soviets for a time. We learned that the Soviets thought
they belonged to us.
K: Right.
B: But they were very high, very obviously under
intelligent control and in formation and they would come
sometimes en masse. The flyover in February of '61 was a
couple of hundred of them... they couldn't count them. And
they thought, oh my G-d! World Wa- III has started here.
K: Exactly. Didn't the base at that point aim and shoot?
B: Everybody got on alert. We didn't have the capability
to shoot because they were too high, and they were too
fast. And in those days we did not have the aircraft nor
the we-ponry to deal with this. And they were obviously
always under intelligent control.
K: So this is why the study was put into effect?
B: The study was initiated in '61. I arrived in '63. It
was concluded and published in '64. And that is, as I said,
what changed my life.
K: Okay, what was the conclusion? You said they came to
some conclusions?
B: The study was designed initially to determine if there
was a threat to Allied Forces in Europe. It was a mil-tary
study... a simple beginning. What the h-ll is going on? Is
there a threat here?
K: Is there? Was there?
B: They concluded after three years, apparently not. No
threat.
K: Really?
B: That's right.
Now the reason they concluded that is first of all, the
technology that they had been exposed to, the technology
that had been repeatedly demonstrated to our mili-ary, to
the Soviets, to everybody, was so far beyond anything we
had or even could imagine, that the technology was out of
this world. No pun intended.
So if there had been a threat from these guys, whoever
these guys were, it would have been over a long time ago.
As one of our Ge-erals use to say, "they could have cleaned
our clock from the very beginning." Because they
demonstrated, repeatedly, technology that we couldn't even
begin to touch.
K: Okay this in the ‘60s? But didn't E-senhower have a
meeting or make a treaty with these people long before that
time?
B: Let me get back here and tell you that this study was
the beginning for me.
K: Okay.
B: It opened the doors of my mind, so to speak. I could
never leave it, I could never lay it down, I could never
walk away from it after that. And I kept over the years
learning more and studying more and as I said, it's lucky I
didn't end up in ja-l.
Because I drove my friends up the wall, I pushed my
security clearance to the limit. I used to get into
c-assified file cabinets and sort through material and look
for photographs, and reproduced things that I should not
have been reproduced. I was a d-mn nuisance, I'm sure.
K: So where is this stuff that you reproduced?
B: You see, I knew just this much (indicating with
fingers) but I wanted to know this much (holding arms
apart).
K: I understand.
B: And over the years I learned this much (holding arms
wide apart).
K: Okay, but what happened to all that stuff you
photocopied or whatever?
B: Oh my Go-.
K: Is that a s-cret? Is that part of the reason you
haven't been...
B: The material that I photocopied I don't have any more
because being somewhat intelligent, I knew that having
classified material in my possession that I was not
authorized to have, meant jai-. And as I jokingly said,
going to Fort Lea-enworth for 30 years. So I destroyed it,
but I put it here (pointing to his head).
K: Right.
B: And I remembered, and I memorized, and I kept notes
for years and years. I had a whole series of notes.
K: Okay, to get back to my question though... Ei-enhower
had a meeting theoretically with aliens. Truman had given a
shoot down order years before you ever read the studies.
B: Eis-nhower never gave that order. It was given by an
Air Fo-ce Gene-al. I can't remember the year, but I believe
it was in the early ‘60s that an Air For-e Ge-eral gave an
order to shoot them down.
That order was revoked within 90 days. We lost something
like 30 aircraft. Because when we started shooting at them,
they had a unique way of eliminating all of the electrical
systems in our aircraft. They didn't shoot bullets at us.
We shot bullets at them, and missiles and everything else.
But if we attacked them, they had an incredible scientific
procedure where they could literally nullify all of the
electrical operations in our aircraft.
Now if you're flying a high performance jet, and you're
at 30,000 feet going 400-500 mph and all of a sudden
everything goes dead. Jet pilots used to share that flying
one of those 100 series planes was like flying an anvil.
They had no glide capability. They were heavy, they were
overly armed and they were heavy aircraft.
The only thing keeping them in the sky was a powerful jet
engine that kept them going. So if they lost all of their
electrical controls, they couldn't even steer, for -od's
sake. The plane - as I said - just fell like an anvil.
Well, we lost a lot of aircraft, a lot of guys got out,
they bailed out in time. A lot of planes were lost. We lost
a few pilots. Now that order to shoot them down was revoked
within 90 days, right.
B: And they never issued that again because they learned
their lesson. Don't mess with these guys.
K: Okay, but you're telling me that you read a re****t in
which the mili-ary states that their technology is not up
to par so they can't compete with people that are flying
over invading their airspace, etc, etc. I'm assuming they
didn't know what their MO [modus operandi] was, they didn't
know what they were there to do, right?
B: Let me tell you briefly what the conclusion of this
three year study was. They concluded that apparently there
was not a threat involved, because their repeated
demonstrations of technology was so beyond anything we
could do or match. If they were angry at us or were
hostile, it'd be over.
K: Okay, but the logic of that is not, it doesn't fit...
B: Let me continue.
K: Just because you can't compete doesn't mean it's not a
threat. It could still be a threat.
B: Let me go on.
K: It could be an implied threat.
B: This three year study did not find any example of
overt hostility on their part.
K: Okay.
B: They were not shooting our planes down. We would shoot
at them but they would pooh-pooh, it's like throwing little
pebbles at somebody, see? They concluded after the three
year study that we were dealing not with one group. We were
dealing with at least four separate groups.
Photographs of crashes, retrievals, landings and
contacts, where they had landed and contacted people,
indicated that they were humanoid, all four different
groups. Out of the four different groups, all humanoid, one
group was so human looking, just like us - it could sit
down next to us in a restaurant, they could sit next to you
in a theater, and you would never know.
Part 2.
John Winston. johnfw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Richard D-an And UFOs. Part 3. Dec. 16, 2007.
This talks about how he was given the papers to
read about UFOs.
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That's the ones that bothered the A-mirals and the
G-nerals the most: that these guys could be walking up and
down the corridors of SHAPE headquarters or the P-ntagon or
the W-ite House.
K: Were they?
B: I have always suspected that yes, they have been.
K: Okay... had you met any?
B: I met a couple that I am convinced were from
somewhere else, yes.
K: Okay.
B: But that's another story, and we'd be here until
midnight if I got into that. Let me finish what I was
telling you about the SHAPE study. The *****sment
concluded we were dealing with incredibly advanced
technology. We were dealing with four different groups, all
humanoid, but one group looked totally human.
We concluded in this study that they were from somewhere
else. Another planet, another star system, perhaps another
galaxy. We concluded that they did not...they were not
malevolent or hostile - overtly. They certainly were able
to defend themselves.
But they did not have an agenda, an aggressive agenda,
that was hostile, because they had not smashed and torn and
broken and destroyed our m-litary.
K: And this is prior to the abduction scenario that has
since come to the forefront?
B: Oh yeah. This was the initial study in '64 based on
three years of research by the mil-tary.
K: Now, who did the study?
B: The milita-y.
K: But who in the milita-y? I'm assuming you weren't part
of this?
B: No I wasn't. I was working in the War Room at SHOC.
The study was under way when I arrived. It was made up of
N-TO members. There were Germans involved, there were
French involved. There were Italians involved.
K: Scientists?
B: And Americans... they went to some universities and
got some of the top people. They got historians... O-ford,
C-mbridge. They got physicists from several of the top
universities in Europe. It was a thorough study.
K: Was it signed by their... in other words, did they
sign off on this study? Do you have names?
B: The individuals who contributed to it, in bits and
pieces, would put initials, you know, to their particular
part in it. You would have anthropologists, historians,
geologists...
K: Okay, but do you know their names? I don't know if you
are going to tell me.
B: No, I know the names of the guys that I was with at
SHAPE headquarters who read the da-n thing, and signed off
in it, yes.
K: Okay what about the ones that worked in the study
itself?
B: No, I never kept those names, because as I said this
was cl-ssified. If I had ever been caught with a piece of
paper from this study, I could have gone to j-il.
K: But someone you were working with gave you this to
read.
B: Well, I'll tell you how that happened. One morning,
one or two in the morning, we were on these long ****fts.
I'm bored to death. The coffee was so black you couldn't
drink it. The phones are not ringing. The telegraphs were
not going off.
It was boring as h-ll. It happens a lot.
The old story is mi-itary life is 99% boredom and 1%
total disaster, total terror. But we were going through the
99% boredom, you know. And I'm sitting there nodding off,
and had read old newspapers, magazines and all. The
controller on duty at the time was an Air F-rce Bird
Colonel, what we called a O-6. All controllers were
6-level, and I ran the duty roster.
He looked at me and went over to the vault and he pulled
this thing out and threw it on my desk. He said, "Hey, this
will wake you up. Read this." It was The *****sment, and it
dealt with UFOs, and it concluded that there were
extraterrestrials coming here, had been coming a very long
time. Sometimes estimates of a thousand years, two
thousands years. Historical records in The *****sment
itself indicated that the Romans had been paying attention
to them two thousand years ago.
So I'm going through this thing and history was one of my
majors when I was in college. Good G-d, this is dynamite!
The more I read, the more I wanted to read, and I went
through the whole d-mn thing, and then later every time I
was on duty in SHOC I would go over to the vault, pull it
out, go through it again.
K: So did you have conversations with this officer?
B: We had limited conversations, because you could not
discuss c-assified material outside of SHOC because there
were too many ears.
We were having a problem in those days. Let me tell you
another little side-bit here of history.
We were in the middle of a vast French s-y ring. Which if
you really want to do the follow up on that, you get a book
by Leon U-is called Topaz.
K: Oh, cool.
B: It was made into a movie.
K: That's right.
B: Ur-s laid it out. A French spy ring was going on in
Paris. I was there at the time, and we would find French
Air Fo-ce officers. We found a French General one time in
the woods outside of SHAPE with a b-llet hole in his head.
Guys were jumping out of apartments in Paris. It was a
major scandal, de Gaulle was the p-esident...
K: Okay but what was the objective of the sp- ring?
B: Well the -py ring was Soviet, to find out what we knew
that they didn't know. So they had been buying and paying
off people all over Europe... Hungarians, French, Germans
....
K: So what has that to do with finding The *****sment
papers?
B: What it's got to do with it is the UFO issue. No
information ever came from Wa****ngton or London to SHAPE
headquarters on the UFO matter because of the French s-y
ring.
Everything that came from Wa****ngton and London to Paris
ended up in Moscow.
There was a British Air M-rshall, Thomas P-ke. Thomas
Pi-e was the Deputy SACEUR [Supreme Allied -ommander
Europe]. He was Assistant Deputy to my boss, an American
four star G-neral by the name of Lyman L-mnitzer. Sir
Thomas Pik-, after the incident in February '61 said,
"We're going to have to figure out what the hel- is going
on here. We're getting nothing from Wa****ngton or London
on this issue. We ask...they don't send anything. We asked
them for information and insight on these objects. Who are
they, what's happening? Nothing."Well nothing was because
everything that came from Wa****ngton and London ended up
in Moscow thanks to the French, the Hungarians and the
Germans.
So the study was initiated strictly as a milit-ry idea to
conclude what the -ell is happening to us here. Is there a
threat, yes or no? They concluded apparently not, because
these guys had been coming and going for a long time. The
history annex took it back a couple thousand years. The
records, the photographs, the drawings, the paintings, it
was unbelievable material. This was just all wild for me,
you see.
K: Okay, but this is after World War II...
B: Yes.
K: It was after Germany had, you know... Paperclip...
[Project Paperclip, in which key N-zi rocket scientists
were brought to America after the w-r]
B: Germany was divided.
K: Okay, and you were in West...
B: We were Western Europe.
K: Sure.
B: The Warsaw Pact was Eastern Europe.
K: So are you saying that the technology that was used by
H-tler and his group, some of which was brought back to the
U-ited States was not known to the West, you know, to the
people in NA-O that were doing this re****t?
Of course not.
It was highly classified.
Part 3.
John Winston. johnfw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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