HOWEDY Ashley,
"ashley ross" <oeiwfcpksnbq@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:10d7bba3-8c93-46ac-a8ab-869ccbc838cf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
*****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method
Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory.
I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research <{}'; ~ ) >
I've got forty five years of EXXXPERIENCE raising
and training mostly giant breed working dogs for families
and security specializing in temperament and behavior
problems and protection <{}: ~ ) >
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.
There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}': ~ ) >
You'll likeWIZE find ETHICAL nutrition and heelth
care practices taught on the heelth page *(last link
on the left side) of my website.
> It is easier to get two young animals to live in
> harmony as they will grow up together,
THAT'S a load of MALARKEY <{}: ~ ( >
MOST of what you post, while well intended, is BUNK,
based on MYTH, and intentional DECEIT pupagated by
the self professed PROFESSIONAL dog trainin, dog food
and veterinary malpractic industries <{}: ~ ( >
> however with a bit of time and patience (it may take
> up to 6-7 weeks) a young kitten or puppy can be introduced
> to an older pet.
That's MALARKEY:
"Ama...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <Ama...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:91381045.0301221814.7aa3a7f6@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
22 Jan 2003
>> This makes me wonder. If the dog taught himself to get
>> the kid off of it by biting, why can't you teach it another
>> method. When my dog nipped to protect my kids, i taught
>> her with distraction and praise.
>
> What did you teach her to do instead of nipping?
First we used distraction and praise to teach her biting is
not ok. 2 weeks ago we had to seperate her from the puppy
in order to feed them.
She would run over, bite him then take his food. If he
licked the carpet where juice was spilled he got bitten.
just examples.
Then during meals, when she moved toward him we
(me, my husband, jerry and his wife) used sound distraction
and praise. We trained her to stay away from him. Then we
let them get close, when she looked like she was thinking of
biting (snap) good girl! good dog... and she would let him
close. since he advanced to eating her food she began
laying down and allowing him tot ake over. so we taught
her to find his food and eat his.
Just doing this has taught her to share.
If he's too roudy and the kids aren't inviting..
she will find her rope and give it to him. if he
takes her kong, she does and finds his and either
gets him to take his own kong or simply lets him
have his.
we did this by feeding her as much as she wanted, giving
her plenty of toys. we taught her there is always more..
we broke that instinct of self preservation. now they share
from the same bowl. not even a growl.
then when she growled because my friends kid went near her
while she was nursing, we put her on lead just long enough
to come 1 foot from the kid. just in case. we put the kid
on the floor in her mum's lap with the puppy and used
distraction and praise if she seemed upset. then when she
went near the kid in a fa****on like she was going to protect
something.. the kids, their food what have you..
we used praise and distraction.
then it progressed to the other day.. the kid was smacking
kelly in the face. pummeling beyond all belief she has taken
from my own kids.. like if the 23 lb 19 month old goes to
stand on her, kelly will brace herself and hold still so the
baby doesn't fall off.
when the baby stands on her we distract the baby and praise
kelly for waiting. so anyway.. she's being smacked in the
face by the same kid who likes to try and dig eyeballs out.
kelly snarled her lip.. no sound.. just showed her teeth...
sound and praise! and she broke her thought and came over
to me.
when the puppy was biting her so hard she cried (pits
dont cry easily) we used sound and praise when she went to
defend herself. then we would go to him and distract him
off. in less than a week she learned to either a. drag him
to me or my husband still attached and shaking her
ear/neck/leg or b. distract him herself.
she sees us use distraction and gentle measures and she
does them too. when he's trying to dig a hole she engages
him in play. when the kid is going somewhere she shouldn't..
kelly will run over to her.. and seperate the kid from say
the kitchen and guide her in another direction.
when the puppy is biting something he shouldn't.. she finds
a kong and offers him the appropriate chewing method.
Dogs are smart. She only knew to nip or growl or bite.
We taught her gentle ways and she learned them.
Dogs don't want to bite kids or puppies or people.. but
they want results. if they know the food will never run
out.. why should they bite over food? if they know someone
else will distract a biting pup why would she bite him?
all she has to do is find me and i will do it... why does
she need to nip the lil kid again?
she knows i will stop the kid from hurting her. yes it still
requires alot of supervision, because this kid does in fact
hurt her alot and she is not part of our pack. but that is
part of my responsibility as well.
Jerry calls it allomimetic behaviour.. i think its plain logic.
the dog won't bite if it knows a whimper or cry
will attract help. but if no one else is in control...
as we were not two weeks ago.. the dog will take
matters into its own hands.
And for Donna who asked how safe setting up an incident is?
it is very safe. If you know the dog will bite the kid if
it goes near its food.. you put the dog on lead and have
someone hold the lead securely. MAKE SURE the lead
will not reach say.. 1.5 feet away from the food dish.
then let the kid go near the food. the dog couldn't reach
if it tried, and if it did you are right there to priase distract.
It is much more difficult in the OP's situation since the kid
is close enough to bite. i'll let jerry elaborate on that.
and i wouldn't try that without his advice. but if you know
your dog likes to lunge through the front door at the
mailman.. put the dog on lead and open the door and use
praise/distraction.. the dog won't go anywhere, but you can
set it up to stop the thought. it's really a common sense
thing.
i knew i needed to set up a situation and knew i
couldn't risk a bite.. so i used a freaking leash that
wasn't long enough to reach the lil kid. voila. by the
time the dog realized it wanted to do something bad.. it
forgot it was on lead... and you distract/praise and break
the behaviour before the dog is mid lunge at the end of the
leash.
Amanda
Whose vicious, aggressive, hopeless pit bull who should be
watched carefully walked by a barking dog who was off lead
as it growled at me and heeled immediately to "protect" but
never used more than 1 foot of the lead and didn't bark or
growl back.
----------------------
Subject: Kelly and Moo
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 11:19:44 -0500
From: Amanda <ama...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
when she bit Moo (the pup) we immediately
sent my husband to winn dixie for a long lead. Although
we paid $22 for a 16ft leash (total rip off) we needed it
right away.
I immediately went onto my driveway and did the hot
and cold exercise. Across our street was a painter
paintiung a house being built. Kelly barked once. I
praised right away and she did well.
Took about 10 minutes for the hot and cold since we
have lots of lizards which were a distraction but she
was standing by me waiting for me to move in ten minutes.
So we begin the FPLX. Another painter arrived.. she didn't
even bark.. just looked!
We were in the street (only nuetral area we could get) and
within say 5 minutes i could zig zag up and down the street
and she followed.
We did have one folley... her lead got caught on a neighbor's
garbage can and it spooked her badly, but she immediately
recovered. Early in the FPLX she located a huge muddy
pool of water and got filthy.. but in the end followed up and
ignored the water!
She came inside and got a nice shower with my husband,
came out and laid down and she and moo fell asleep with
him nursing.. she wasn't scared of him at all.. although he
nurses quite roughly... she fully laid down on her side.
She did bark at him while he ate, but today he ate and
she walked by within 2 feet.. i stood ready with my can
and praised and only needed sound three times when
she got really close.
She is now on the floor chewing on him... in a good way..
same way she nibbles our children.. we call it tickling..
and she and Moo are rough housing and we found his
legs and at one point his head in her jaws and she was
so gentle.. she did get too rought wice and he didn't
hesitate to screech in pain and ever since then she's been
so gentle..
I can even go "Where;s the Moo?!?" and she will find
him and check him... The change is amazing.
We never had any pulling on our lead and if i did i walked
closer and used the recall. this was only at first though..
after the initial trial was over she was checking us every
10 seconds to make sure we were close.
i even did an about face when she was at the end of her
lead and no tension! She is doing her commands without
hesitation or treats.. such as Up, down etc when we need
her to move. When she stepped on my feet i nicely said
Ouch! and she licked me.. she hasn't done it since.
She follows me and every tme we make eye contact she
gives me her pitbull smile. She even stopped barking at
our neighbor's two dogs and pig.
She only barked once today when our kids and Moo were
outside... but we're working on that. She always gets very
angry if our neighbor's dogs bark when the children are
outside.. but the priase and distraction are working soooo well.
I'm telling everyone I know about your manual.
Oh! And Moo held himself last night and went pee and poop
outside for the first time today. He comes when I call 90%
of the time... and I suppose it is due to only knowing his name
recently. And the sound distraction and praise are working
on him too! He's only 5.5 weeks old!
You're a dog whisperer of great ability Jerry... you took your
ability to work with these animals and you freely help out others
and I think it's a beautiful thing. I wish you great success and
if you like I will keep you posted. Also feel free to use my emails
to show others how great you are. I will also be posting pictures
on my webpage of the pups when I get a chance.
Also.. although we got Moo Sunday night. Kelly is
already lactating on Moo's two favorite nipples :)
Sincerely,
Chris, Amanda, Jasmine, Chloe and Naya (your methods
work on me too! despite being 18 months old!), Moo and Kelly.
-------------------
> Your old pet should be exposed to as many new situations,
> visitors and pets as possible.
That's MALARKEY. "Socialization" is DONE pryor to leavin
the litterbox - ALL temperament and behavior problems are
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING AS TAUGHT BY the pathetic
miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin PROFESSIONAL
TRAINERS and UNIVERSITY TRAINED BEHAVIORISTS:
"Linda" <llindaleedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3c317fe4.0301072210.7f7ef069@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph.D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help.
We finally went to Purdue University Small Animal Behavior
Clinic and they said he had fear aggression, punishment
would not work, use the gentle leader and when out walking
and he got stressed have the people stop until he could get
in control using treats,and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using the
gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he would
not come when I called him and would run away when I tried
to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and
women who hasn't trained her dog."
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were
so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said I
should give up on him and kill him but they would say
"You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
***(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sun****ne
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone.
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
---------------------
> This will help them to adapt to any new pets in the house.
THAT'S MALARKEY <{}: ~ ( >
You mean you DON'T BELIEVE in the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR?:
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sun****ne but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sun****ne back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-
- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
------------------------
> If you are getting your new pet from a shelter then you
> should ask the staff about its behaviour towards other
> animals;
That's IRRELEVANT <{}: ~ ( >
The so called "RESCUE / SHELTER" organizations and their
pathetic lyin animal murderin mental cases are a SCAM <{}: ~ ( >
Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: uim43blqq1h...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I gotta speak up here... We've been using
Jerry's methods with our dog. We had the same
problem as the original poster has with Buzz.
One day working with the family pack exercise
and practicing the recall command with the family
and she'll now go out with hubby and daughter
instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.
I really urge you, regardless of the negative
things you might hear about Jerry & Wits'
End here, to try the method and *judge the
results for yourself*.
Let's see what other areas she's improved in...
always comes when called, not chewing stuff
even if we leave it laying around, "re" housebroken
after long shelter stay, walks perfectly on leash,
doesn't try to steal food from our plates or beg...
probably a few more things I'm forgetting to mention.
*(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi and don't wander. jh).
That's in about a week's time.
Her overall demeanor has changed. When
we brought her home she was very untrusting
and ultra-submissive (except with her area/toys
where she was possessive and nippy).
She had been abused and beaten by previous
owners, then she was in a shelter for months.
They (most of them) wanted to give up and kill
her.
Now she's gained confidenceand trust with us.
Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she
barked just once when she heard the front
door. Great!
Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about
Jerry or that the Wits' End manual is culled
from other sources. In my opinion, even if it
is, it takes only the good stuff and leaves
out the bad.
Works for me.
(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know
Jerry personally. I've emailed him and instant
messaged him. I have not bought a "Doggy
Do Right". He's offered help for free.)
M.
--
Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com
& http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
& Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227
--------------------
> does it have a history of aggression toward other animals?
THAT'S IRRELEVANT <{}: ~ ( >
> When your new pet arrives it will be very tempting to
> spend a great deal of time with it, perhaps at the expense
> of your old pet.
That's ABSURD. The "old pet" will ENJOY the new puppy
JUST LIKE HOWE does the "old pets'" family <{}: ~ ) >
> You should lavish praise and attention on your old
> pet to avoid any jealousy issues, which can occur.
NO. JealHOWESY is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> When you are dealing with a puppy and an adult dog,
> you should resist the temptation to be overprotective
> of the young dog.
THAT'S INSANE. The puppy DEPENDS on
his FAMILY to PROTECT him <{}: ~ ( >
> If the adult reprimands the puppy try not to interfere,
THAT'S INSANE <{}: ~ ( >
> this will upset the normal household hierarchy and
You mean, that the HUMAN is IN COMMAND and
sets the RULES for BEHAVIOR, by demonstrated
SELF-CON-TROLL, Ashley?
> may lead the older animal to use excess force in the future....
ONLY when FEAR, FORCE and INTIMDIATION are used
to GET CON-TROLL over the dog or child's behavior:
Dr. Von wrote:
Unconditional Acceptance, Love, Approval are a positive
reinforcement of good feelings and reinforce groupness.
What your critics do not realize is that all free dogs live
in packs all heaped up together, touching each other closely,
or sniffing and barking happily or working tracking and
chasing down prey.
All loving groups are continually rewarding each
other with "good brother/sister" sounds and smells.
I can send you a bibliography of hundreds, nay,
thousands of papers which prove that scaring,
hurting, startling, demeaning, puni****ng animals
deranges behavior.
NEGATIVE means NO! Freshmen frequently make
the error that negative reinforcement is aversive
reinforcement, no, its NO reinforcement.
Aversive reinforcement includes choking, kicking,
biting, shocking, abrading, alpha rolling and other
sadistic behaviors. AVERSIVE reinforcement always
deranges behavior.
Neither paramecia nor dogs ever forget.
Dr. Von
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement.
IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are
what reinforces any behavior," Pavlov.
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs
Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?
> > Hello, Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for
> > positive-only dog training, in particular clicker training?
> > Thanks, Lucy
Jen wrote:
> I would love to know of one as well. If there was enough people
> interested maybe we could start one. I've just started clicker training
my
> dog and have been doing the positive training for a while now. I think
> it's great!! Jen "artbylucy" <artbyl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:OMudnRS23OLEc7zenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.
The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.
With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in his FREE manual. Free download, nothing sold, no
mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free sup****t if
needed.
With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.
Not difficult.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.
You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.
Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.
Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands. Dr. Von
---------------------
"Paul B" <some...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3edc57c5@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When I trained both my dogs to "heel" or walk close
to me I ended up going to the parks and teaching
them without a lead at all, that ensured I had to use
good communication and was unable to be tempted
to use the lead to correct them.
Another part of the training I agree with is not using
the "policeman" approach, where you tell a dog "no"
or react with it in such a way that you become involved
in the behaviour (by trying to stop it), this approach
often results in a dog ceasing the behaviour when you
are about but doing it when you aren't (bin raiding,
counter surfing etc).
Basically you are taught to make your dog a good
friend who likes and wants to work for you for the
pleasure of working for you (setting the hierarchy
is included in this), teach it to recall reliably,
then to do everything else (sit, stay down etc etc).
Unwanted behaviours are addressed as they occur.
If you understand what you are trying to achieve and
are prepared to work with it you can get great results.
Paul
--------------
"Ama...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still the second she
began to pull. She would pull to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another direction...
say to sniff my neighbors yard.. she learned if she wanted
to do it I would stop walking and she could go.. and if there
wasn't enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl heel..
smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go" and finish *my*
thing.
I would refuse to move .. i looked like an idiot.. freezing
mid walk for minutes waiting for *my* dog to heel and give
*me* permission to go again.
I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose pit
and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective.. we had
a new pup on the way.. and i needed help..
i followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only when my
pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was better than what
she wanted.. which was not often.
She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she could see
my hands were empty. So I called Jerry... he chatted me
for about an hour and a half.. gave me his link... and even
when i had probs intro'ing the pup he called me withn i5 mins
of my email for help at 10pm on a sunday night.
One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after the hot
and cold exercise and i could zig zag down my street..
about face .. whatever.. and never had tension.
two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he even
looked like he was going near my husband or kids.. is
nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside.. actually
watches him to make sure he doesn't go in the house...
and has milk.. which is awesome since she's 19 months old
and has never had a litter.
She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
She also does her commands on cue..and doesn't look for a treat.
Amanda.
------------------
Disciple Paulie Writes:
I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and
say "good dog" sincerely at the end of the
request and I bet you'll find your dog thinking
then responding everytime.
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule
applies to every aspect of the relation****p with
your dog.
Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.
Paul.
-------------------
From: "Paul B" <NOS...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:04:56
Subject: Re: It doesn't work. Do it harder.
"Chris Williams" <k9ap...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:16008-3E52F7CF-697@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Interesting question posed in this article: why do
> humans persist in doing things that are unsuccessful?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/=AD=AD=ADarticle.cgi?f=3D/c/a/2003/02/1...
There may be a few reasons, sometimes it's ignorance,
simply a failure to realise what you are doing is
futile and you need to adopt a different approach.
Sometimes you may be learning a new technique and
need to experiment with it to be sure it's not just
the way you are applying it that is the problem,
you may need to try slight variations of the same
technique to see if there is a different result
before you dismiss it completely.
Sometimes you are doing the only thing you can
think of, even though it's not working but you
simply don't know what else to do.
Either way as long as you are able to reflect
and learn from your experiences and move forward
then a few failed attempts are all part of the
learning process.
My best example was teaching both dogs to walk
to heel, alone and together in the brace position.
I was determined to teach them without any aids
choke, prong collars or treats etc) and without
forcing the heel by jerking or restraining them
using a leash, I knew it could be done, despite
the scorn of friends and even family who "knew
better" (but had never actually trained a dog
in their lives).
It took me a while trying various ways to entice
them to want to walk beside me, someone else at
the dog park whose dog appeared to heel very
well ( but held it's ears back and tail down and
looked very intimidated about being at heel)
suggested I give up and use a choke collar like
him, but I was obstinate.
One day like a switch it all fell into place,
first one dog then the other then both together
all walked to heel, then I tried without leads
and it worked, the dogs were happy and so was I.
I had persevered and succeeded and learnt a lot
in the process.
People said "it took you long enough" but now I
could teach heel easily and quickly when I need
to do it again. And now when I walk my dogs and
I see the same scornful people with their dogs
still pulling on the choke collars saying "heel,
heel" it's me who has the last laugh.
Paul
-----------------
From: "The Puppy Wizard"
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
> From: "diannes" <dian...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Newsgroups:
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM Subject:
> Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone proclaiming
> > > > > a method that works on all dogs, all the time, would send
> > > > > up "red flag" to you and others, but the fact remains, if a
> > > > > technique *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy underlying that
> > > > > technique.
>
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method is involved
-
> > > > that's just acceptance of reality.
>
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the method,
> > > though anyone is welcome to make that leap.
>
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy and its
> > > model of learning.
>
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using terminology
> > differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must typically
> administer the aversive stimulus in order to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.
Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;
Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;
Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;
The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;
Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .
There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.
I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's ***ULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.
NO PUNISHMENT.
Must pay attention to who is the animal?
His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.
I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.
Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.
Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.
You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.
Fondly, Dr. Von
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice
Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.
I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:
whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.
The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine you may find my resume
in Who's Who in Science and Technology I have been listed
in Who's Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big
books, Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in
Medicine etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date.
These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and
you can't get yourself into them.
--------------------
|
