From: Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
27 Nov 2006 12:03:58 -0800
Subject: Re: How does "don't let him do that" work?
HOWEDY Scooter,
Welcome to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
*****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method
Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory.
I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research <{}'; ~ ) >
I've got forty five years of EXXXPERIENCE raising
and training mostly giant breed working dogs for families
and security specializing in temperament and behavior
problems and protection <{}: ~ ) >
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.
There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}': ~ ) >
You'll likeWIZE find ETHICAL nutrition and heelth
care practices taught on the heelth page *(last link
on the left side) of my website.
"Scooter" <juliekes...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:1164652331.871730.140870@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> First-time dog owner (had one when I was a kid, though),
> so please be kind....
You're askin LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and
ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM INCURABLE
MENTAL CASES for advice for the same problems their
dogs got that THEY CAN'T TRAIN <{): ~ ( >
> We got Ozzie, an 8-month-old cattle dog mix, from the
> Humane Society a few weeks ago. For the most part,
> things are going well--I'm sure we're doing a whole bunch
> of things wrong, but Oz seems pretty smart and he's trying
> pretty hard to work with us.
You just got ALL the INFORMATION you need <{): ~ ) >
DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST here abHOWETS, Scooter.
> However, there are a couple of behaviors that we need to
> work on. He's pretty good at stopping what he's doing when
> we tell him to stop,
Tellin a dog or child to NOT DO what they're doin is the
FASTEST way to teach them to do it FASTER soon as
you ain't lookin <{}: ~ ( >
> but I don't get how to keep him from acting up in the first place.
You gotta PRAISE them IN ADVANCE *(non physically)
and BRIEFLY ALTERNATELY VARIABLY NON
PHYSICALLY distract and praise till the undesired
beahvior is EXXXTINGUISHED in just a couple of
repetitions.
HOWEver, the Gang Of Miserable Pathetic Stinkin Lyin
Animal Murderin Active Acute Chronic Long Term
Incurable MENTAL CASES you're asking for ADVICE
PREFER to jerk choke shock bribe crate intimidate
surgically ***ually mutilate an MURDER innocent
defeneless dumb critters to compensate for their fragile
defective egos, weak fearful minds and colossal inferiority
complexes <{): ~ ( >
> The most frequent (but least serious) issue is jumping up on us-
Jumpin is a BONDING behavior. He's TRYIN to say "HOWEDY".
Tell him "HOWEDY" IN ADVANCE and he won't NEED to jump.
If he does, just take a half step back and snap your fingers on WON
side and INSTANTLY PRAISE THE SOUND and ENCOURAGE
him withHOWET tellin him it's O.K. to jump and REPEAT the
brief non physical distraction on the other side and FOLLOW THE
TECHNIQUE till the behavior is EXXXTINGUISHED and REPEAT
the process in four different locations with four different people and
the jumpin or ANY behavior will be gently and PERMENANTLY
EXXXTINGUISHED.
Your newfHOWED punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case pals REFUSE to learn HOWE
to use EFFECTIVE Pavlovian / Ericksonian CONdiditoning
on accHOWENTA they PREFER to HURT INTIMDIATE
MUTILATE an MURDER dogs to make themselves FEEL
P-HOWERFUL and IN CON-TROLL <{): ~ ( >
> -he jumps (boo), we say no, down, he gets down immediately
> (yay), we praise him, then he jumps up again (boo), we correct
> him, he gets down (yay), he jumps up (boo)... you get the picture.
Oh well then, your newfHOWEND punk thug coward active
acute chronic long term incurable mental case pals will tell
you that you gotta give him a little "KNEE ACTION".
LIKE THIS:
handsome happy jackass morrison aka dogman aka tommy sorenson sez:
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
And then he sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and ****n. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about ru****ng past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and ****ge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
----------------
SEE?
> I feel like an idiot,
NO PROBLEMO. You're in EXXXCELLENT company.
> but how do we get him not to jump up in the first place?
Here's HOWE noted author and trainer LeeCharlesKelley
EXXXPLAINS his HIGHLY EFFECTIVE METHOD
which works well with The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, *****,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard's:
From: LeeCharlesKelley - view profile
Date: Tues, Sep 21 2004 8:46 am
Email: "LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
problem with using any kind of negative stimulus
to "correct" behavior is that it generally has negative side-
effects (such as fear and aggression) which don't surface
until later on.
The impetus for jumping up comes from positive social
emotions. Stifling that impulse doesn't teach the dog
*how* to do anything, or give him (or her) an outlet for
that positive energy, so what you're usually left with is a
dog who doesn't know what to do with its energy and is
forced to find another, even less acceptable outlet.
I've worked with a lot of dogs who have this problem and
I've found that the best way to deal with it is to actually
teach the dog to jump up on command, then teach the dog
to *only* jump up when the command is given.
Then you need to teach the dog to "channel"
the positive emotions behind the jumping up
behavior into a calm and focused sit, so that
when he has a strong desire to make positive
social contact with people he can do it safely
and successfully.
That way you're not stifling the dog's energy,
you're teaching him *how* to use his energy.
LeeCharlesKelley.
16 From: LeeCharlesKelley
Date: Tues, Sep 21 2004 8:56 am
Email: "LeeCharlesKelley" <kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: Trip re****t
by "LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
18, 2004 at 12:23 PM
(Julia Alshuler describes meeting a bomb detection dog at the air****t):
> The dog's handler told the dog to give
> him some lovin', and the dog got up on
> the handler's leg in the position for
> humping. He wasn't actually moving his
> hind legs as in a full fledged hump, but
> his forelegs were hugging the handler's
> thigh. From there, the handler petted
> his head and said the ususal cooing noises
> that people say to their dogs. Granted I
> know that humping doesn't necessarily mean
> *** or dominance or anything nasty so there
> wasn't anything necessarily wrong with
> allowing a well trained dog to get in that
> position, but I'll still admit that it struck
> me as all wrong to allow or encourage that
> sort of thing.
Not only is it not wrong, it's probably an integral part
of the dog's training. I use jumping up to increase the
dog's social attraction, which improves performance in
heeling and the recall.
Even dogs who are hesitant about jumping up
need to be taught how to do it. I've used
it to cure depression, leash aggression, and
of all things, jumping up!
I went into this before, but that's how Pat Burnham gets her
spectacular finish on her greyhounds. It's also one of the key
components of Natural Dog Training.
LeeCharlesKelley
----------------
Scooter CONtinues:
> The most serious (but thankfully least frequent) problem is that he
> will occasionally go from calm happy guy to agitated in a heartbeat.
THAT'S on accHOWENTA your REPRESSIVE "trainin" efforts.
Subject: Jumping Up
From: Paul B
Date: Wed, May 23 2001 3:53 am
Email: "Paul B" NOSPAMpand...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
sound distraction and praise method works
a treat, anticipation and timing is everything
though. Set the dog up so you know it's going
to jump up, when it's about to jump (know your
dog know the signs) use the can noise and praise
immediately, the praise is absolutely paramount!!!
The dog didn't jump it was distracted by the sound,
it may have done something else probably nothing
but it didn't jump up so praise mmediately to reinforce
the "no jumping".
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting,
Roz was a terrible jumper upper, really,
really bad, she greated every new person that
way.
With the help of some friends we used the
sound distraction technique to stop her
desire to jump up, it took one session of
absolute consistancy and anticipation, about
16-20 repeated attempts of Roz jumping up
and every time b4 she jumped but just on
the verge using the sound and praise to
distract her.
I took her to the park a day or so later
and off leash we stumbled upon a group of
dog walkers with their children, Roz went
off to the kids and I rushed over to get
her back in case she did her jumping up
but she was fine, she didn't even show any
desire to jump up, she greeted one of the
adults, a certain jumping up temptation
but she was fine.
I was very pleased and relieved.
Paul
-----------------
> His ears go back and he tries to gnaw on whatever part of a
> person is in reach--he doesn't actually bite, but it's pretty clear
> he's not just being playful.
THAT'S PROBABLY HOWE COME he ended up in a "shelter".
You're gonna make your dog viciHOWES like HOWE janet boss
done for paul e. schoen's dog Muttley and nearly got him dead
JUST LIKE HOWE lynne just done to her dog Briar who BITE
HER TWICE and attacked her other dog.
You want a piece of THAT??? Just keep askin these pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin mental cases, Scooter...
From: Lisa
Date: Wed, May 23 2001 8:50 am
Email: "Lisa" lbed...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Paul B" <NOSPAMpand...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3b0b7aca@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> The sound distraction and praise method
> works a treat, anticipation and timing
> is everything though.
> I was very pleased and relieved.
> Paul
Paul,
I enjoyed this post. I've been working
with sound distraction/praise as well,
and I agree that the praise is essential
in conjunction with the sound.
Also, as you point out, timing is im****tant.
If I catch my dog, Beau, just on the verge of
doing something--stealing food for instance-
-and snap my fingers followed by immediate,
non-physical praise... it seems to "extinguish"
undesirable behaviors.
It usually takes repetition in a few different
areas (my plate, my husband's plate, my
daughter's plate) for the behavior to go away.
As soon as I see the nose heading slowly
towards the food source, I make a sound
distraction followed by praise.
Also, I've found that it helps if the sounds
come from different directions each time-
-another good reason to use the penny cans.
-Lisa
--------------------
> This is where I know the "don't let him do that"
> rule *really* needs to come into play,
And he'll become more FRUSTRATED and BITE you and
then you'll freakin MURDER him and blame the DOG like
HOWE these pathetic miserable stinkin lyin mental cases done.
Your newfHOWEND punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case pals will tell you to leave
a leash on your dog's pronged spiked pinch choke collar so
you can jerk an choke IT when IT wants to say HOWEDY.
"Paul B" <pand...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3c2ae204@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
the manual has no dangerous
suggestions at all, people who find
the manual useful are those that don't
need to control a dog to satisfy their
own ego but simply want a well behaved
dog that is easy to live with.
I would suggest the people who follow the
advice in his manual are people who have
already tried other inefficient methods
and are fed up with the poor results.
The more I think about the methods he
suggests the more sense it makes, the
biggest problem is people believe they
have to be in control of the dog, tell
it whats right and wrong, dogs don't
understand our values and I don't believe
they are capable of understanding them
either, so to train them we use methods
they understand.
That means abstract training, doing sometimes
what appears to almost be the opposite of what
makes sense to us.
If you are purely result orientated then you
will not find Jerry's manual much use, if
you love your dogs and love to work WITH them
then his manual is your dream come true.
Distraction and praise works with any dog,
when you sit back and really think about it,
it's very obvious why.
When a dog is properly distracted (and praised)
of a particular behaviour then that behaviour
very quickly becomes unfulfilling so the dog
will no longer have any interest in pursuing
it, whether we are about or not, thats the key
to stopping garbage can raids and food stealing
etc etc, no force, no bad dog, just distracting
it in an appropriate manner that it no longer
wishes to pursue that behaviour.
Better than hiding the garbage can eh?
Paul
---------------
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST
It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out
of a cat bowl without too much difficulty.
My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls
although Roz licks up any bits that have been
dropped around the bowls :-)
I used a can with stones in it to create a
distraction anytime the dogs tried to eat
the cats food, followed with immediate praise.
It worked a treat. The cats bowls are down
all the time, usually there is food left over
but the dogs don't eat it, even if we go out
and leave the dogs with access inside through
a dog door.
Paul
--
Obedience and affection are not related,
if they were everyone would have obedient
dogs.
See the dogs, cats, us and pics of NZ
etc at my homepage.....
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/paulbousie/index.html
Updated regularly (last time 23 Jan 01)
so keep coming back!!!
--------------
From: "Paul B" <NOS...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:04:56 +1300
Subject: Re: It doesn't work. Do it harder.
"Chris Williams" <k9ap...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:16008-3E52F7CF-697@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Interesting question posed in this article:
> why do humans persist in doing things that
> are unsuccessful?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/02/15/HO240381.DTL
There may be a few reasons, sometimes it's ignorance,
simply a failure to realise what you are doing is futile
and you need to adopt a different approach.
Sometimes you may be learning a new technique
and need to experiment with it to be sure it's
not just the way you are applying it that is
the problem, you may need to try slight
variations of the same technique to see if
there is a different result before you dismiss
it completely.
Sometimes you are doing the only thing you
can think of, even though it's not working
but you simply don't know what else to do.
Either way as long as you are able to reflect
and learn from your experiences and move
forward then a few failed attempts are all part
of the learning process.
My best example was teaching both dogs to walk
to heel, alone and together in the brace position.
I was determined to teach them without any aids
(choke, prong collars or treats etc) and without
forcing the heel by jerking or restraining them
using a leash, I knew it could be done, despite
the scorn of friends and even family who "knew
better" (but had never actually trained a dog
in their lives).
It took me a while trying various ways to
entice them to want to walk beside me, someone
else at the dog park whose dog appeared to heel
very well (but held it's ears back and tail down
and looked very intimidated about being at heel)
suggested I give up and use a choke collar like
him, but I was obstinate.
One day like a switch it all fell into place, first
one dog then the other then both together all
walked to heel, then I tried without leads and it
worked, the dogs were happy and so was I.
I had persevered and succeeded and learnt a
lot in the process.
People said "it took you long enough" but now
I could teach heel easily and quickly when I
need to do it again.
And now when I walk my dogs and I see the
same scornful people with their dogs still pulling
on the choke collars saying "heel, heel" it's me
who has the last laugh.
Paul
-----------------------
> but how does that work?
IT DON'T. THAT'S HOWE COME they gotta SHOCK
CHOKE MUTILATE an MURDER their own dogs.
Your newfHOWEND punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case pals will tell you to lock IT
in a box and IGNORE his cries, spray him in the face with
aversives, knee him in the chest, pup him on the snHOWET
step on his toes and turn your back to him.
> Our current response is to remove him from the scene
> (send him outside), usually accompanied with stern
> voices and stern looks which I don't think do any good.
Of curse not. You gotta GIVE HIM A STERN LECTURE.
LIKE THIS... Here's professor of ANALytic behavior at UofWI
marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM 'NO!' into ITS face
for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer:
Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer)
In article 2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED CASE}
HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > tami sutherland <suthe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
>
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
From: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/12/21
Subject: Re: Doc Dermer's offer
In article <tfR74.1$W64....@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Jerry Howe"
<j...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
> Lemme aks you sumthin, doc? When you punish your dog,
> do you find that he masturbates more frequently after
> such instances? (referring to your post about your dog
> using a pillow to get himself off)
First, I punish behavior, not dogs.
Second, I rarely issue corrections.
Third, as time goes on my dog uses the pillow less frequently.
I would say he uses it about once a month. Finally, I'm not
really concerned about my dog's masturbating; I don't find
such dog behavior offensive. Eating dog poop, for me, is
another story. And the rate of that behavior has also
diminished with time. :-)
--Marshall
------------------------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
From: lolajo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(lolajo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: My greyhound becoming bully of dogpark,help?
Date: 2004-01-07 01:15:04 PST
> From: requestaddyfi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Sharon too)
> "If that don't work, check out some training books or look up
> the "Puppy Wizard" for suggestions on controlling this."
> Uh... since this was a response to my response I feel the need
> to clarify my position. In no way would I recommend anyone pay
> attention to Puppy Wizard.
> -Sharon
What is wrong with "The Puppy Wizard"?
I know his posts are a little wacky but his sound distraction
technique has worked very well for me. After using traditional
training with mixed results, I was able to stop my dog from
jumping up, eating poop, begging from the table and
excessive barking using his methods.
Lolajoker.
---------------------
Subject: to Jerry Howe
From: MArtog
Date: Wed, Jan 17 2001 12:51 pm
Email: MArtog <mar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Just wanted to say thanks. The method you told me to stop
my dog from eating my other Labs sh-t in the backyard has
worked well.
She has also improved greatly when off leash out in the woods.
She still sniffs (of course), but I rarely need to stop her
from anything else.
I've always been diligent about watching her, and cleaning
up the yard, but ya just can't be there every second. And
she is quick! So, thanks again for the advice.
I feel more confident now when I turn my back.
And to all you folks going yea, sure, right.
THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST. HE gave me advice.
It worked. Plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.
So Jerry, allthough I don't lurk here, I'm sure
you're still putting up with DogButt and his ilk.
So good keep up the good work!
Off course DogButt will read this, even thoe it doesn't
have his name on it. Cause he thinks he owns the group.
So to you DogButt.........Well,,,,never mind.
You're already a loser. I don't need to tell you that.
Please feel free to correct my spelling/grammer, etc.
Yes, goodbye, good riddance, blah blah blah.
Later.....
MArtog
----------------
From: Paul B
Date: Thurs, Oct 19 2000 12:00 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
I can't understand why anyone should have to follow their dogs
about picking up their poo everytime they go in the backyard .
I clean up every day or every other day, we have a large yard.
My dogs have no more inclination to eating their own poo than
I do. They never have. They used to love a nice fresh cow pat
or cat poop during walkies but it was really not a big deal to
make them find that behaviour undesirable.
I'm too busy to be picking up dog poo everytime they go, besides
they are given the run of the yard (and inside, via a dog door)
while we are at work so of course they poo outside then too, so
there's no way I could pick it up before they get it if that was
their "thing".
People come here asking for advice, "How do I stop my dog from
eating poo?" and they want to know how to train the dog so it
stops , not get stupid comments like " pick up the poo so it
won't eat it".
I assume most posters have more than a wafer of intelligence
and realise that picking up the poo b4 the dog does is not a
very practical solution but realise how obvious a suggestion
like that is.
Training dogs not to eat **** of any kind is not that hard.
The fact that you don't clean up after your dog everytime it
goes in the backyard does not mean you are a disgusting SOB,
a couple of dog poo's lying in the yard for a day is not going
to spark a national health hazard.
Paul.
--
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Dog eats poo!
Date: 2000-12-05 00:40:48 PST
I used sound distraction to stop my 2 dogs eating cow poo
during walkies. I posted here a while ago explaining how I
managed to control them from eating it but there were a lot
of sceptics. If your interested I'll be glad to tell you
what worked for me, just let me know and I'll post a thread
on this NG.
Paul
--------
From: Paul B
Date: Sat, Oct 21 2000 2:18 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
The sound distraction and praise method he uses is VERY effective,
I use those techniques on my dogs and the results are great. From
teaching a dog to recall to preventing unwanted behaviours (****
eating, eating the cats food, growling when taking a bone from a
dog, jumping up, even escaping from the property, any behaviour).
To say sound distraction and praise methods don't work is pure
ignorance.
I can understand you not liking Jerry and being pissed off with
the posts he submits but please keep things in context and don't
slam a technique just because you can't stand the person suggesting
using it.
Paul.
------------
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.
I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".
Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).
The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".
That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.
After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.
When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".
This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.
You've been a blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
===================
From: Paul
Date: Wed, Dec 6 2000 12:00 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
I'm not exactly sure why Jerry is saying to ignore me, it's his
advice that I found was the most successful. During walks in a
particular park the dogs would come across fresh cow pats and
munch away happily.
To stop this I'd set them up, I'd find a nice fresh cow turd and
stand next to it, when the dogs came over and saw it they would
start to munch, at the onset of this I'd chuck a throw chain near
the dog to distract it and praise straight away, the reason for
the praise is the dog stops eating as soon as it hears the distraction
so I'm praising that behaviour, the not eating.
I'd set them up again and repeat, but make the sound come from
a different direction, maybe the first time chuck the chain to
the right of the dog, the next time to the left, then behind etc,
it's the randomness that is effective and always sincerely praise
immediately.
Now when I walk through the park they leave the turds alone,
they aren't interested in them anymore due to the distraction
training. Don't let the dog know that you made the sound, the
sound just "occurs" this is im****tant as it removes "you" out
of the problem.
Paul
----------------------
From: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/07/14
Subject: Re: Puppy adolescence
In article <378CB7A8.757C6...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
jillbr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Myth or fact?
> Our beagle pup has always had her share of attitude
> (c'mon, it called "spunky," mom), but I seem to be
> getting more than my fair share of blank stares these
> days. For example, she's across the room, I tell her
> to come, she stis there, tilts her head and stares at
> me. I can almost hear her little doggie brain thinking
> "wonder what'll happen if I ignore that???"
> Do all dogs have random periods of disobedience or is
> this the doggie-adolescence I've heard about (she's
> 10.5 months)? How long might it last? What's the best
> way to handle it -- do I clamp down a little or just
> wait it out?
> thanks,
> -jill
My dog almost always comes when called. I would assume
that this is because coming is often consequated with
some form of reinforcement like food, petting, the
op****tunity to play a game, etc.
But there are some times when he does not come.
These are infrequent. What do I do? I say, "bad dog"
and the moment he starts coming I say "good dog."
Why is "bad dog" effective?
When my dog was a puppy and he did not obey a command,
that was in his repertoire, I would say "bad dog" and
pick him up by the back of his neck and deliver a brief,
"harsh," lecture.
I would assume that in the process, I established "bad
dog" as a powerful conditioned punisher. I also did the
"bad dog" harsh lecture routine, when he would eat his
poop which he seemed to do quite often.
My dog, a Havanese, is quite a "softy" so I quickly
discovered that not much of a "lecture" was needed
to establish "bad dog" as a conditioned punisher.
I should also note that I said "bad dog" in various
ways, including near whispers. The net result is that
"bad dog" functions as a conditioned punisher even
when whispered.
So, if my dog just "sits there" when I say "Max come"
and then I whisper "bad dog," the vocalization in
principle punishes the ongoing behavior and so the dog
is disposed to do something else and that something else
is almost always following the previously issued command.
(You really don't want to issue the same command multiple
times without some consequences for failing to comply, for
then your dog will initially ignore your commands!)
I am NOT a dog trainer. I am a behavioral psychologist
(Associate Professor) who has loved dogs all my life.
I write this because it is likely that Jerry Howe, who
apparently opposes all forms of punishment, will post
a follow-up to this post.
His follow-up will likely not directly answer your
question but instead refer you to his poorly written
training manual or his magic black box that putatively
cures nearly every canine problem.
His follow up, unfortunately is also likely to personally
attack me. You are free, of course, to form your own
opinions and follow Jerry's advice.
I want you to know that although I have used punishment,
infrequentely and in limited ways, my dog is strongly
bonded to me. He follows me everywhere, he sleeps with
me, he cuddles at night with me, and he loves to perch
himself on my legs, much like a cat, when I'm reading a
book or talking to folks with my feet outstretched.
I don't see where the limited use of punishment has
harmed him in any general way. Perhaps, the limited
punishment I have used together with all the postive
reinforcement I have provided for "coming" and "going
down" in the context of drills, in all sorts of settings,
and under all sorts of cir***stances, will someday save
his precious life.
I hope this post is helpful (also see below). Diane
Blackman, Avrama Gingold, Paulette Nolan, Ludwig Smith,
Lynne K. and others regularly post great advice here.
Individually we sometimes make mistakes, but collectively
I think we offer a variety of viable approaches limited
mainly by our inability to be with you and your pooch at
your home.
Best wishes,
Marshall
BWEEEAAAHAAAAHAAA~!~!~!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
You can install the come or ANY command in a few
minutes as a conditional reflex, if you know HOWE.
LIKE THIS:
ballzde...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10
> minutes of work and the cans from mr Howes guide,
You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
> I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.
Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command as
a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.
> He is an extremley smart dog, I have never had
> to go to the third or fourth try.
---------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Hi, Jerry.
I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).
For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').
Best, ben
------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM
Hello.
I never posted here (or anywhere) before. I
never trained or owned a dog before this year.
I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.
Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.
I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.
I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.
A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.
We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he isvery eager to accept our love.
So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.
His method worked for us.
I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.
Florence
---------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:52:30 -0500
Re: Puppy Wizard's Website
Hi Buzzsaw
Not a Thing to lose ...But a Lot To Gain!!
I can only speak from my experience.. I have a 8 month
old miniature poodle, and although I had done some basic
training with him we had a few barking issues ..ugh
I am happy to tell you, I contacted Jerry at the email
addy I posted and he was so great! I wasn't following
the technique precisely but he helped me get back on track.
Beau is doing sooooo well it is really a thrill working
with him, and seeing the remarkable changes.
Now I can ask for "recall" (come) both on and off lead
and it is immediate!
the first time I ask.
Best of Luck to you,
Remember if you need help or explanation contact Jerry ..
he will be more than happy to help anyway he can.
Cheers
Barb
--------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: lucyaa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mon, May 23 2005 1:08 am
Email: lucyaa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Anyone else have an opinion?
I'm not a trainer and my experience is limited to my two dogs, so take
it for what it's worth. As someone who had to deal with a puppy who had
his own ideas about what was and what wasn't "proper behavior", I was
very happy to find The Amazing Puppy Wizard's dog training method. It
is a method that is gentle to the dog, very easy to apply and it has
been working wonderfully with both my dogs, giving practically instant
results. It was as if I had been given the "key" to understanding and
controlling my puppy's behavior: suddenly, he was listening to me,
doing what I was asking him to do, instead of constantly opposing me.
It also worked with some issues my older dog had, too - her fear of
thunder, her barking and her aggression towards another female dog.
Don't let either the first impression about the "weirdness" of The
Amazing Puppy Wizard, or the regulars' negative opinion of him (there's
a long history behind it) deter you from at least reading the manual
and deciding for yourself if you want to try it or not.
I wish all the best to you and your dog.
Lucy
--------------------------
professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer CONtinues:
> In some cases the force is quite clear as when presenting an
> eliciting stimulus which immediately elicits a response (such
> as ****ning a light into a mammal's eye and the pupil contracts)
> and in other cases the force is quite obscure (as when your dog
> gets up off the floor, jumps on the couch, and settles at your side).
> In the method I posted for training a retrieve, it is true
> that I opened my dog's mouth and I understand why compared
> to other methods,
***(HOWER good professor means 'HOWE COME' <{}: ~ ) >)
> like the one that accompanied my post by Diane Blackman,
***(professor SCRUFF SHAKE an SCREAM "NO!" into ITS
face for five seconds an lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation
dermer means diane blankman aka Master Of Deception blankman of
dogplay.CON, a well known liar and dog abusin mental case and fraud,
who deposed BY DEFAULT professor SCRUFF SHAKE as HOWER foremost
obs****ationist when he got BAGGED FOR LYIN first) <{): ~ ( >
> people could describe what I did as using force.
Naaaah?
> But again, from my standpoint, all behavior is forced;
> from my standpoint volition is an illusion. As Cindy,
> cogently noted above, "force" is a difficult concept
> to address.
Well, we'll just FIX that, professor.
> My point here is that any such discussion involves
> deep philosophical and religious issues.
BWWWAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA!!!
PERHAPS this will EXXXPLAIN world wide terrorism
and child / animal abuse, civil unrest, rising violent crime,
the Holocost, etc., eh professors?
> For any training procedure we should ask:
> 1) effectiveness--does it work?
> 2) efficiency--does it work quickly and with minimal
> resources?
> 3) relation****p--does it strengthen or weaken the extent
> our pet/friends will bond with us? [That's why we try to
> almost always use positive reinforcement rather than
> punishement.]
> Jerry, the Merchant of the Magic Box, always considers 3)
> whereas we sceptics always consider 1) and 2). ;-)
> --Marshall
O.K. doc, grab a ringside seat and have some cotton candy
to enjoy, while watching the death-defying high wire act,
performed without a safety net...
Let's have a go at it, shall we? I'm going to explain a couple
of things to you that I'd kind of like you to keep in mind,
even though you probably won't understand what it is that I'm
saying. Otherwise, you'd have understood by now. Ferstaisch?
It would have been obvious to you, had you read my manual.
Your words, doc: "Jerry, the Merchant of the Magic Box,
always considers 3)"relation****p--does it strengthen or
weaken the extent our pet/friends will bond with us?
[That's why we try to almost always use positive
reinforcement rather than punishement.]"
This con man is so smart, he's going to put himself out of
business by giving away free training information that will
obviate the need for his machine and cost him sales, in many
cases. Good competition is good for business, so why not
compete with my own interests? I'd have a hard time finding a
more worthy adversary.
Wouldn't you agree?
The motivation for such a poor business decision isn't
sheer stupidity, doc, it is indeed, number three.
As a simple uneducated professional dog trainer, doc, I'm very
aware of the urgent need to bring harmony to dog's and their
people's lives.
I realize the need for people to improve the quality
of their FAMILIES and their dogs' lives, through
learning proper handling and training techniques.
Dogs lives are at stake here, doc... As a professional
dog trainer, doc, I don't settle for second rate advice
for my dogs or my students. There is no excuse for
anything less than excellence in one's field, especially
my fields of expertise... Wouldn't you agree professor?
1) effectiveness--does it work?
The methods in my manual doc, are scientifically and
psychologically based. The techniques are precise,
and the results are repeatable consistently, on any dog,
even wolves.
The effects happen almost instantly, certainly within three or
four repetitions, if done correctly. Many other animals can be
handled the same way (my rats would come when called, and no,
I didn't use food bribes on them either), all you gotta do is
be bright enough, observant enough, and be accurate in your
timing, to use the tools properly. A five year old child could
do it, with a little help from mommy.
You'd have been able to learn a lot from reading my text, doc.
You would have learned by now (after wasting eight months),
that the Wits' End Dog Training Method has as much to do with
family, as it does with training dogs.
There is little difference between properly raising a child,
and properly raising a dog. The ideology taught in the manual
applies to your kids, your wife, and anybody im****tant in your
life. The concepts of respect and consideration as taught in
my manual, will have significant inferences on the way we
raise our children, work, think, live, govern ourselves, and
will positively impact our society and eventually the entire
world.
The FREE Wits' End Method is not just a HOWE to manual,
it was written to make you THINK! Think about what you are
doing with your dogs, kids, mates, employers, employees,
co-workers, neighbors, government, and the entire world.
2) efficiency--does it work quickly and with minimal
resources?
Even better than that, doc. It' FREE! And no other method
works as quickly and effortlessly. HOWE COME I don't just sit
down, write a book and send it out to an editor, and put in
some old photos, and sell it and get fat?
For one thing, doc, I don't need to get fat. My machine will
make me fatter than you could ever conceive of. The
information in my manual is unsurpassed, and cannot wait for
me to polish it up and do it up so you can say it looks pretty
and reads like Louisa May Alcott wrote it. All the information
is in there, it's solid and vital, and timely...
3) relation****p--does it strengthen or weaken the extent our
pet/friends will bond with us? [That's why
we try to almost always use positive
reinforcement rather than punishement.]
Number three, (of course?), needs no further explanation, doc,
cause you already agree that it is im****tant. That's where you
are dead wrong, once again, doc. Just because you agree with
the point, does not mean you understand HOWE COME and HOWE
im****tant it IS.
You still qualify "always use positive reinforcement," by
preceding it with "try to almost." That's because of your
limited appreciation and tremendous misunderstanding of what
is really happening. You are like a recalcitrant little child,
doc. That's HOWE COME I'm here, and you're there.
And that's HOWE COME you got to get the heel outta here,
you and your Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Thug Cowards.
Here's what you fail to understand. The fundamentals of
properly handling and training a dog are not whether we can
make the dog stop jumping, or teach him to heel. The first
point that must be considered is the holistic concept, does
the dog want to work with us.
HOWE COME does he want to work?
He must want to work because he enjoys your company,
because of the quality of the bond you've formed, because
YOU asked him.
What is MOST IM****TANT, is what we need to
accomplish in the big picture, not the micro aspects
of stopping the dog from peeing on the floor.
You people get so goal oriented, you focus on the pp on the
floor, instead of trying to address the true reason the pp is
there. When you do try to figure it out, you only go one level
up: too much water, didn't walk him in time, never thinking
about what may really be causing the problem. Or, you go one
level down: should have crated him, should have kept him
restricted, should have walked him every hour.
You're missing the boat.
Usually stress and anxiety, and negative attention getting
devices, are the cause. The reason they exist in the dog, is
primarily mishandling and miscommunication, and lack of
patience, anger, and frustration, and the negative methods of
communication you all endorse and use, even ever so slightly.
I've been hurt more from a harsh word from a lover, that from
any man or beast who has ever thumped me.
Sure, I get lots of people that ask me, "Jerry, HOWE COME
you won't just tell me HOWE to get my dog not to pee on the
floor?
My answer is inspired, and won't allow me to bastardize it to
make life simple for someone who will otherwise never learn
the difference between right and wrong in the handling and
management of their dogs.
This kind of people, good people just like yourself, doc,
will never develop their necessary and proper potential as
appropriate dog owners and trainers, until they are taught
the very basics of proper handling, to effect the macro of
their relation****p with their dog. I'll be dealing with this
in the retrieve thread, so be there, or be square...
I could give tips all day long to help solve behavior problems.
That will put a finger in the dike, but other problems will keep
popping up in their place, because the dog never quite learns,
because he's dealing with freaking morons like you, doc.
It seems that when you got to the point in my manual where I
criticized the universities and behaviorists for having failed
us, and paraphrased the following quote, is when I lost you.
Not surprising, doc. That's exactly HOWE COME it was there,
to separate the wheat from the chaff in this dog behavior news group.
I wrote the entire manual specifically for this group, because
of the desperate need for decent dog training information that
was previously nonexistent here.
I've been around these guys patching up their wounded dogs all
my life, doc, and I'm sick of it. That's HOWE COME I'm here,
to facilitate some long overdue changes in the dog training
industry. Training the dogs here is secondary to solving the
problem of HOWE COME we have problem dogs.
That reason is almost exclusively: rotten training methods
used by incompetent trainers and dog abusing descartean
university trained behaviorists like professor SCRUFF SHAKE.:
This was professor of Behavior ANAL-ysis at UofWI, marshall
dermer's first analysis of "Pure Positive" methods:
Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer)
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
mattburns...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED CASE}
HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
Here's Dr. Von EXXXPLAINING the meaning
of RAPE in doggy psychology terminology:
From: "GEORGE VONHILSHEIMER, PHD, FRSH"
<drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: The ***** Slap?
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:10:06 -0500
Jerry, Jerry! JERRY! what a slow learner you are.
positive reinforcement, atta boy, reward
negative reinforcement, no response, nada, negative means NO
punishment, aversive action taken immediately after unwanted
behavior - stupid, moronic and confusing, don't use it.
All the reasons you said - except where did you get this insane
notion that brain studies of reward trained and aversion trained
dogs show no difference. WRONG!
Relief of aversion, MAY be similar to reward, but then you've
got to start with the aversion, nay? Simply put, you are pulling
the dog with the leash and he moves in your desired direction.
He relieves the choking or just pull of the collar.
Relief of aversion MAY be just as good as reward, if you
are VERY careful about what you are giving to get him
to relieve. And all your objections to punishment stand...
You have to put him in a cage, to train him by relief of
opening the door.
You have to pull him with a collar, to train him by relief of easing
the pressure. Notice that you must have the discipline not to snatch
the leash repeatedly, only slow continuous kindly pressure works for
relief of aversion to be pure.
You have to give him a continual shock,
to train him by turning the shock off.
Tricky.
You can bully a dog into some behaviors but the dog knows forever
after that you are a bully. So he can be a toady, or he can be
your enemy. I hope he tears out your throat, in a genuinely Christian
way, of course! heh heh heh
you mean rape doesn't work? Good metaphor here, Literature is full
of descriptions of love following rape or humiliation. Never met a
lady or a man who claimed that's how her or his own love began, have
you? Punishment is a form of rape, if you want the erratic
constipated love of a cowed animal then punish, by all means, you
rapist.
You know we had to send a dog to the city that never did learn not
to attack ****cupines. He'd come home with his face full of quills
time after time. Those are a ***** to get rid of and the pain only
comes when you are pulling the quills out. Not a good place for a
friend to be.
You know I don't KNOW that it doesn't hurt when the ****cupine
slaps them in - I never saw it happen. But I do know that it hurts
likehell when you screw them out. If untreated the dog usually
dies - horribly.
My pop finally had to murder our Chang because he'd get screw worms
every summer and after the first time Pop was slow and had to do him
with turpentine he wouldn't even let his beloved Pop come near him
with a bottle in his hand. Yikes. So we killed all the screw worm
flies. YAY!
Dr. Vonsky
---------------------------
SEE??
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Sup****t Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and sup****t your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establi****ng a nonprofit
charity to fund your im****tant work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy
Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
--------------
> This seems to defuse the situation, but how do I
> keep the situation from arising in the first place?
Your newfHOWEND punk thug coward active acute
chronic long term incurable MENTAL CASE PALS
SELL OBEDIENCE TRAININ <{): ~ ) >
> Suggestions would be much appreciated!
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy And Horsey Wizard DON'T
GIVE "tips" and "suggestion" on accHOWENTA THAT'S
HOWE COME people GET RID of dogs like you got, Scooter.
> Scooter
That's all for NHOWE, fellow dog lovers~!
And when your heads stops spinnin, The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, *****,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard sincerely wishes you and yours happy,
heelthful days, FOREVER <{}; ~ ) >
I remain respectfully, humbly yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
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