HOWEDY mikey a.k.a. pat a.k.a. unsurreality_2005 aka
trollbasher aka BLACK VOMIT, you anonymHOWES
pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin child an
spHOWES abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case and professional dog trainin
FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,
THANK YOU for trimming those awfully EMBARRASSIN
cross posts and snipping all them humiliating QUOTES <{}'; ~ ) >
<unsurreality_2005@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:1cc5e7c1-d8bc-4672-b532-2c1d500366fa@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nov 6, 11:09 pm,
"Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory"
<Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> HOWEDY mikey a.k.a. pat a.k.a. unsurreality_2005 aka
> trollbasher aka BLACK VOMIT, you anonymHOWES
> pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin child an
> spHOWES abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic
> long term incurable mental case and professional dog trainin
> FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,
Sez it ALL, don't it, mikey <{}'; ~ ) >
UNLESS, of curse, you are, likeWIZE, the
cowardly poster known as karmachao??
> <unsurreality_2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
> news:87a583f1-92ff-405f-a0ac-1719d4f1522a@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >> AND you CAN'T TRAIN your dogs not to EAT ****, eh, steveb?
>
> > I thought this was a family newsgroup,
Hey mikey? I thought you was gonna advise steveb HOWE
to EXXXTINGUISH his doggy's kat poop eatin problem
despite that he CAN'T CATCH THEM IN THE ACT so
he can JERK an CHOKE an SHOCK them like HOWE
*you* PREFER, you worthless piece of sub-human CRAP??
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> INDEEDY~! Oh, an WELCOME, mikey~!
Hey mikey?
I'll wager $100.00 that you AIN'T GOT NO ADVICE <{}: ~ ) >
> > or were you lying about that too?
It's *you* who won't let his child read The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic
Grand Master Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret,
Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual Forums
And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research
Laboratory - REMEMBER, mikey?:
HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka mike dufort you mentally
ill viciHOWES lyin dog child and SP-HOWES abusing coward <{): ~ ) >
unsurreality_2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaborat...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > HOWEDY tara o. aka tee aka scrundogs you pathetic
> > multi mentally, socially, morally, ethically challenged
> > insufficent, stiffled, stunted, abused, abuser, tara o. aka
> > tee of Boxer Rescue of NC, you lyin dog abusing punk
> > thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable
> > mental case,
> If you had grandchildren, would YOU
> let them read the above paragraph???
IT'S ALL TRUE mikey. Here's a couple paragraphs The
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard WOULDN'T LET KIDS READ:
unsurreality_2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Try this free book - it has helped me so much:
> Courteous Canines
> http://home.adelphia.net/~nuxodom
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
HERE'S HOWE COME:
You wrote:
> And what does this mean?
THIS MEANS YOU CAN'T POST HERE abHOWETS nodoGdameneDMOORE.
> YOU ARE A ****ING LIAR.
Oooops!
NoWONder HOWE COME YOU won't let YOUR OWN KID
read The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Forums, eh michael???
When's the LAST time you EVER gave
any "ADVICE" here abHOWETS, michael?
Seems you spend ALL your time COMPLAININ abHOWET
The Amazing Puppy Wizard and HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Kat Child And SP-HOWES Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ ) >
> > > See? You are wrong yet again. I spend "ALL" my time
> > > complaining about you? Uh - NO. But I do my share of
> > > warning people about you, the pervert and liar and people
> > > abuser and dog abuser and scam artist that you are.
>
> > > THAT, I am guilty of - but someone has to warn people of you.
> > > Don't you agree?
>
> > > "My son thinks like everyone else when he sneaks on and
> > > reads this group: you are "a dummy" according to him.
> > > Even kids can see what ****ing idiot you are."
> > You "DON'T allHOWE" you kid to see these forums so
> > he does it behind your back JUST LIKE HOWE these
> > dog abusers dogs counter surf and raid garbage bins soon
> > as they turn their backs on them <{) ; ~ ) >
> So you think kids don't do things behind their parent's back?
Children SNEAK an LIE on accHOWENT
of they FEAR their abusive parents <{}'; ~ ) >
> You are damn foolish.
You're a dog an child and SP-HOWES abuser and COWARD mikey:
A Poor Shepherd Boy And His Dog At His Masters Feet wrote:
> HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka trollbasher aka BLACK VOMIT
> aka mike duforth, you anonymHOWES lyin dog abusing punk thug
> coward active acute chronic long term incurable MENTAL CASE,
> HOWE COME you're a anonymHOWES coward, mikey?
Jesus H Christ - I'll repeat this YET AGAIN - TRY
TO PAY ATTENTION *THIS* TIME, ASSHOWE.
I am MIKE DUFORT - UNSURREALITY_2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
THE **** AM I ANONYMOUS???? WHY do you
CONTINUE LYING ALL THE DAMN TIME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
> HOWE COME you snip cross posts to
> AVOID EMBARRASSMENT, mikey?
Because total assholes like you pollute other forums that
don't want a thing to do with you. HOW COME you send
CRAP to so many groups when you know damn well no
one wants to read them?
> HOWE COME you HURT dogs an LIE abHOWET it, mikey?
I don't HURT dogs so how can I LIE about it? I've INVITED
YOU to meet me and I'd PROVE that I don't HURT dogs - hell,
I'd even TEACH you HOW to train dogs without spiking temps
to a deadly 106 degrees, BUT YOU ARE A COWARD.
When you grow some balls and want to meet me and prove
HOW tough you are in person instead of hiding on the internet
being a bully abusing people, you give me a call or e-mail.
If you don't, then you have NO business calling ANYONE
a COWARD - and we'll know the TRUE coward. Oh, let
me clarify because you don't understand a damn thing - the
TRUE coward would be JERRY HOWE.
I await the place - not my house, not your house - where we
will meet to end this once and for all, COWARD. How about
someplace inbetween Boca Raton and Orlando?
I think that's fair. Like Yeehaw Junction -
there are a few little motels around there.
I'm DEAD SERIOUS - bet your life on it!
Everyone else - watch as this imbecile will continue being
a net bully but won't do anything in person because he IS
*THE* COWARD bar none.
I'm serious - I'll meet him halfway, but this jackass Howe
will continue to harass people hiding behind a keyboard.
So, HOW about it, HOWE? I make my own hours writing
from home so whenever you are ready to meet up I can
immediately take any time off.
unsurreality_2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> IHateToSayItButITOLDYO...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > HOWEDY katrina aka white monkey you lying
> > dog abusing mental case,
> > White Monkey wrote:
> > > I just have to rant,
> > That's NORMAL for you white monkey.
> > > here.
> > HOWEver, NOT HERE. You and your mentally ill lying
> > dog abusing punk thug coward pals AIN'T postin to The
> > Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
> > INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
> > Training Method Manual Forums nodoGdameneD more <{); ~ ) >
> Holy ****!
Permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to courteHOWESLY
remind you these are FAMILY news groups, pat:
"But it's just FINE for you to abuse PEOPLE, huh?
I can't let my son read this newsgroup JUST BECAUSE
OF YOU, yet you are ANGRY at child abusers?!?
You are a ****ing idiot."
That's you, pat.
> For once Jerry Howe is RIGHT!!!
Jerry Howe, The Amazing Puppy Wizard
is ALWAYS right on accHOWENT OF:
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes so utterly
beyond value. With him, words play no torturing
tricks.........., " John Galsworthy.
Like a confessor Priest? Don't bet your dog won't
tell on you... Their behaviors reflect our words,
actions and training quirks. Jerry HOWE, The
Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{} ; ~ ) >
> We AIN'T posting to "his" forum at all since it's not his forum!
Would you BET YOUR LIFE on that, pat?
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Cir***stances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
> Again - post a god damned official do***ent that says
> rec.pets.dogs.behaviour is YOUR property and we'll all
> back down and respect you.
NO PROBLEMO <{}: ~ ) >
------------------
>> Seems we got a little PROBLEMO for
>> bein a FAMILY news group <{}: ~ ( >
SEE HOWE COME, mikey?
> Hmm. Go through my entire book.
WOW~! An entire fifty pages of LIES, ABUSE,
INSANITY and DISINFORMATION <{}: ~ ( >
> Not a single curse word.
Perhaps you didn't know HOWE to SPELL them, eh, mikey?
> Yet you not only curse at people but write offensive crap all the time
Yeah, and it's ALL TRUE, AIN'T IT, mikey <{}: ~ ( >
> and then say this is a "FAMILY NEWSGROUP."
AS STATED: "Looks like we'll have to SACRIFICE the children, mikey":
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It," mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
> Hypocrite - look the word up.
Ok, mikey:
hyp?o?crite-noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious
beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually
possess,
esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
LIKE THIS:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It," mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
SEE?
AND:
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved
attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements
belie his or her public statements.
LIKE THIS:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It," mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
SEE?
> But, no one expects anything from you except junk.
LIKE THIS?:
"But it's just FINE for you to abuse PEOPLE, huh?
I can't let my son read this newsgroup JUST BECAUSE
OF YOU, yet you are ANGRY at child abusers?!?
You are a ****ing idiot."
That's *you*, pat, you pathetic dog an child abusin coward <{}: ~ ( >
> Hey. How about to be fair and balanced, also
> post the stuff in my book that you agree with.
THERE AIN'T NUTHIN THERE, mikey <{}: ~ ( >
> You choose a few simple things that in your whiny opinion is wrong.
You mean, LIKE THIS, mikey?:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It," mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
HERE'S HOWE COME, mikey;
Here's the SCIENCE your fellHOWE miserable stinkin rotten
lyin animal murderin child abusin punk thug coward active
acute chronic life-long INCURABLE malignant maliciHOWES
MENTAL CASE PALS FEAR an HATE:
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs
Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
AND:
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement."
IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are
what reinforces any behavior.
AND:
"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.
AND:
"Motivation Of The Resistance To Coercion "-- PAVLOV
"Reflexes of purpose and freedom" in the comparative
physiology of higher nervous activity, Institute of
Higher Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology, Academy
of Sciences, Moscow:
The most complex unconditioned "reflexes of aim and
freedom," discovered by I.P. Pavlov, are compared
with the "competence drive" and the "motivation of the
resistance to coercion," respectively, described by
contem****ary ethologists.
On the basis of the unconditioned "reflex of purpose,"
conditioned reflexes were developed in which positive
emotions arising in connection with the perfection of
a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic significance at
a given moment, serve as the reinforcement.
The unconditioned "reflex of freedom" is regarded as a
phylogenetic precursor of the will, and its acute extinction
as the physiological mechanism of hypnosis. It was
demonstrated experimentally that the appearance of the
state of "animal hypnosis" (immobilization catatonia) in
rabbits is accompanied by the predominance of electrical
activity and heat production in the right hemisphere, i.e.,
by symptoms which are found in hypnosis in man.
Simonov PV</h4>
Publication Types:<ul><li>Review</li><li>Review,
tutorial</li></ul>PMID: 2215892, UI: 91015681</blockquote>
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
<transitional//en">
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=2215892&am
p;form=6&amp;db=m&amp;Dopt=bNeurosciBehavPhysiol1990May-Jun;20(3):230-5
AND:
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
AND:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."
AND:
B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment:
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:
If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.
People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.
The need for punishment seems to have the sup****t
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.
Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.
AND:
A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!
AND:
The Embry Study:
"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.
Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason
with their children about da****ng into the street will
likely to have the opposite impact.
Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward it."
Source:
"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Re****t
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."
AND:
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) re****t a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are re****ted to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated.
Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists."
Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of
programmed systems for learning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST
SURELY DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers."
AND:
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).
Some clinics have re****ted ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental
HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents tem****arily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
SEE?
Here's HOWE COME you mental cases PREFER to
HURT, INTIMIDATE, MUTILATE an MURDER
innocent defenseless dumb critters an LIE abHOWET it:
Author and professional dog trainer LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
Thanks, Jerry, that's a helpful bit from the guy
who started it all. This shows what we've been
saying: that teaching the dog to play fetch,
regardless of its usefulness in the eventual
search part of the training program, is a
powerful motivator and reinforcer.
Of course these idiots (pardon my being blunt)
don't see using food and clickers as being a
form of coercion. Maybe they've been hypnotized
by Karen Pryor, et al?:
Freeze Frame <{}: ~ ) >
From: canis55 <cani...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 1999/09/28
Subject: Dear Marilyn Re. Ness
Dear Marilyn,
I just visited your updated site. The two Ness pages are great.
Freezing the video frames to reveal the emotional impact a
leash correction has on a dog was a wonderful idea.
Lee Kelley did something similar to a Brian Kilcommon video.
The difference is we were focusing on the emotional impact a
leash correction has on the trainer. When you do this to a training
video you can clearly see the tremendous emotional charge some
of these trainers are getting from hurting dogs.
It's a strange business, this dog training. I wonder what motivates
any of us to engage in it. I'm suspicious of anyone who says they
do it because they love dogs. I know a lot of people who claim to
love what dogs represent to them, and yet they don't become trainers.
I don't think this is because they love something else more.
I think there is a difference between loving what dogs represent
to us and loving what training them creates in us or even creates
in them for that matter.
It's a complicated process and perhaps many of us have lost sight
of what we're doing. I read books and articles that matter of factly
explain how to systematically inflict pain on dogs in an effort to
create a desire to perform tasks that I often see dogs performing of
their own accord. I know many of these behaviors can be shaped
and encouraged to the same degree of reliability without all the
violence and pain.
Where they can't (if that's the case), I wonder why we think
a dog should perform a task that is so repugnant to its nature,
that we must resort to violence and coercion to compel them
to participate.
Maybe I have far too much respect for dogs, but when I read
this stuff it sounds like slavery and involuntary servitude to me.
I can't see much difference between what we're doing to them
(for their own good) and what my country men did to the African
peoples for nearly half a century.
It's hard for me to accept that I'm surrounded by so much
madness, but I have to go with my heart on this one. Most
of what we demand from dogs--if not all of it--will be offered
willingly and enthusiastically if we only learn how to request
it in a manner they can comprehend.
If it turns out that I have to attack a dog to get it to do or to not do
something, then maybe the dog isn't supposed to do what I think it
should.
The whole thing's so complicated that I can't really express it. I
just know I don't like some of the stuff I'm seeing or reading about.
--
I trains'em as I sees'em.
----------------
SEE??
HERE'S HOWE COME:
In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY, you may
substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars for shock
and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING, CRATING, and
witholding rewards, attention, and affection:
Psychological Effects
At issue is the question, --Do electronic training
devices elicit psychological responses?
"This section cites several research studies in which the
psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices
was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine
the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods
until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in
a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on
what it is, but it varies from dog to dog.
It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect
of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired
need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild.
Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long
term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004).
Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334).
The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral changes in
dogs during training using electronic training collars. Thirty-two
dogs were divided into two groups, each receiving both general
obedience and protection training.
One group was trained with shock collars and the other group
without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars
displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched
yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and
tongue flicking.
It was also noted by the authors that, even during play and relaxed
walking, the group of dogs trained with shock collars continued to
show signs of stress while in the company of their handler.
The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful;
receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock
group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner
(or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even
outside of the normal training context.
They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at
stake, at least in the presence of their owners.
This study has come under considerable fire because the experience
of the handlers and dogs is not clear, and the level of shock is not
stated. With that said, it does suggest that dogs are stressed by the
experience of being shocked during training.
---------------------
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> Fine.
No, it AIN'T "fine", mikey, it GOT YOUR OWN
DEAD DOG DEAD on you, remember, mikey??
> It's not wrong,
Seems the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR scares
you lyin animal murderin cowards, eh, mikey??
> but you are insane so who cares?
As were the above SCIENTISTS, mikey?
> No one - go look at everyone replying to you.
> Oh - wait - there is no one. GEE, I wonder why.
You mean you 'WONder HOWE COME,' mikey <{}: ~ ( >
> Care to take a guess why, moron?
You mean 'care to take a guess HOWE COME,' mikey <{}: ~ ( >
HERE'S HOWE COME, mikey:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It," mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
LIKE THIS:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt
"J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?
janet CONtinues:
> > My dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
> > I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
> > should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
> > your dog(s).
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
-------------------
LIKE THIS:
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
--------------------
From: BethF (d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: to treat or not to treat
Date: 2002-01-14 12:50:27 PST
> "Jerry Howe" <jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
<news:8TI%7.10635$du.948527@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
> > And you jerk and choke your dogs on pronged spiked pinch
> > choke collars lock them in boxes and call that training
> > and spray Binaca in their eyes to quite their crate anxiety barking...
I dont' jerk or choke my dog (the little one is
too little yet for a pinch collar). They simply
wear pinch collars.
It prevents any jerking or choking on their part.
I do crate my dogs - the big one only at the dog
club and to travel, and the little one so he can
become accustomed to being in a crate.
He is learning to enjoy it and to use it as a place
to rest from the playing that he and Kavik do
..
I used binaca to quiet Kavik's in class whining
that disturbed the class. It would be quite difficult
to binaca a dog that is in a crate.
I did hit him in the eye accidentally, and stopped
using it at that time. Jerry, have you NEVER made
an error in training the dogs you have trained?
How many dogs have you trained exactly?
Can you list some references here - I
would like to contact some of your former
clients to get a reference or two?
------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.
-----------------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"Well, actually the binaca worked but after i
got him in the eye it was not a possibility to
be using that."
"Actually, the most common use of this technique
(and it is quite common) is with TABASCO sauce
either mixed with water in a spray bottle or on a rag
that you can stick in the dogs mouth instead of spraying
(after our experience I would suggest this method if I
was going to use this technique again). My dog likes
tabasco so that didnt' work for us.
Binaca was suggested as an alternative from a very
well respected dog trainer from the lower 48, however
I don't think she counted on his flailing his head in a
desperate attempt to get away from the sprayer causing
me to miss."
------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"BethF" <d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.
--------------------
"BethF" <b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.
Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.
--------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution Will
Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
AND LIKE THIS:
Here's tommy sorenson of sorenson's Retriever PUPPY MILL
and SHOCK COLLAR trainin SALES aka the miserable stinkin
lyin animal murderin child an spHOWES abusin anonymHOWES
active accute chronic life long incurable mental case punk
thug coward aka not so handsome, not so gentle, not so manly
jackass, not even jack morrison, aka joey finochiarrio aka
BIG DADDY aka DOGMAN HEELPIN dogs:
tommy sez:
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
And then he sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and ****n. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about ru****ng past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and ****ge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
You mean like HOWE when you HOWEsbreak a dog an
you beat IT with a switch or heavy man's leather belt and
tie him next to his evil deed and return to BEAT HIM every
twenty minutes, tommy?
tommy SEZ:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
"Swatting a dog on the nose is always the wrong thing to do."
tommy wrote:
From: dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Dogman) Date: 1997/11/11
Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding *****sment
This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole, distortion,
lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely out of context,
instead.
What lying hypocrites these hand-wringers are!
The most consistent argument among Koehler's defenders is based
on a questionable assumption that such "drastic" measures are
effective in "extreme" cases where other methods fail.
------------------------
LIKE THIS:
REC PET DOGS NEWSGROUPS
CRAZY KLUB
NEWEST INDUCTEE BETHGSD July 2004
From: Bethgsd (beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: failed attempt to rehabilitate
aggressive dog
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2002-04-11 16:42:08 PST
Gwen wrote:
>Absolutely! And I personally find it somewhat
>insulting that the comparisons of this were made.
>Since I do have epilepsy myself and it is a very
>life threatening disease when one is not on
>medication. Very.
>
>Gwen
[Bethgsd Responds]
[GWEN, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS...
CHEMICAL IMBALANCES CAN BE LIFE THREATENING]
Well, Gwen I suffer from severe depression which
is controlled by a particular SSRI and I find it
insulting that you don't feel that chemical
imbalances can be lifethreatening. No, I don't
go into status but I've attempted to commit
suicide a few too many times. And no, those
weren't little "cries for help" they were honest
to G-D attemts to get out of the pain.
So get your head out of your ass and realize that
chemical imbalances can be as life threatening,
if in a different way, than electrical misfiring.
Beth [aka Bethgsd]
not to be confused with the non crazy
as far as we know, BethF who is ONLY
a LIAR and DOG ABUSER)
---------------------------
SEE?
From: beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bethgsd)
Date: 1999/10/28
Subject: Re: To the regulars
Lois,
Hey, I thought you were pretty contained
given the cir***stances.
Don't you wish you could be face to face with
Jerry PITA Howe for just five minutes?
Beth
From: Gary & lois Edwards (ga...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
) Subject: Re: Where
is Darlene? Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-****rt to prove
it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's father
locked her in her room back in the twenties because she was
simple. A shame that medication probably would have helped
her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's personality,
she has a way of making grandiose plans when at the top of
her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't saying that
anyone with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------
SEE?
Here's HOWE COME you can't train your own dogs:
HOWEDY bethgsd you pathetic acute chronic long term
incurable lying dog abusing mental case and vivisectionist,
bethgsd@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> JohnWesley wrote:
> > Hey folks,
> >
> snip
> >
> > My only problem is biting. I haven't had a puppy
> > since I was a kid. I know mouthing and biting is
> > normal for a puppy.
Yeah, it's BONDING behavior.
> JW,
> Sounds like you are doing a good job,
He's writing in on accHOWENT of he CAN'T TRAIN HIS DOG.
> especially with your description of potty training.
You mean lockin his dog in a box to TRAIN IT.
The dog is BITING him and his Mrs...
> As far as the mouthing goes, if I have a puppy that is
> very persistant with the mouthing I'll soak my hand with
> bitter apple and then do what gets the puppy to mouth.
You also jerk choke scruff shake and shock them:
From: beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bethgsd)
Date: 2000/02/07
Subject: e collar brands
Do the experienced e collar users have a preference
between tri-tronics and innotek? Could you post any
differences/ advantages between the two that you have
found?
TIA
Beth
> Usually one or two times of that will take care of the problem,
CITES PLEASE?
> in my experience.
beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bethgsd) wrote:
> > Beth, I guess you know by now that this ("wolfcub")
> > is really Jerry Howe in drag, eh?
> > Anyway, you would be smart to totally IGNORE anything
> > that "wolfcub" has to say about e-collars, or about anything,
> > for that matter.
> Dogman,
> You are so right. I've tested an e collar on myself to see just
> what I was doing to my dog. Uncomfortable, yes. Painful, no
> and I'm a big pain weenie.
Now just run along and try it again, but this time cover
yourself with dog fur - then switch to the setting most
commonly used by the so called dog trainers who depend
on hours of pain and punishment to teach what it takes me
and other professionals less than 5 minutes with no pain
whatseover. No I'm not Mr. Howe - you're not that lucky !!!
wolfcubb
> I wonder if the totally anti e collar people are the same ones
> that sing the praises of the head halters, not mentioning the
> cervical disk lesions that can be caused by them.
> Beth
===================
> I wouldn't do the alpha roll thing.
From: wolfcubb <wolfc...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 2000/02/09
Subject: Re: e collar brands
In article <20000208194449.14686.00001...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bethgsd) wrote:
> > Now just run along and try it again, but this time cover
> > yourself with dog fur - then switch to the setting most
> > commonly used by the so called dog trainers
> Actually, sweetie, I tried it on the bare skin on the back of
> my neck. Much more sensitive area than the shepherds fur
> covered necks. Also, I used the setting I was using on the dog.
>
> Beth
Ignorance is really no excuse in the eyes of the abused.
You set no comparison whatsoever. Those who believe
in pain shocking dogs are incompetent morons with no
thought of consequence.
Defend all you like, only other morons will believe you.
Painful dog-training is for lazy, uneducated, narrow
minded idiots.
wolfcubb
> I do teach my pups that I can put them in various positions,
> including on their backs, and touch all over their bodies, hold
> paws, open their mouths, etc.
> But I do it gently and not in anger.
> If they fight I just calmly persist.
From: beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bethgsd)
Date: 1999/10/28
Subject: Re: To the regulars
Lois,
Hey, I thought you were pretty contained
given the cir***stances.
Don't you wish you could be face to face with
Jerry PITA Howe for just five minutes?
Beth
> I would also recommend that you find a good puppy
> kindergarten that you feel comfortable with the trainer
> and methods.
>
> Good luck
> beth
"Bethgsd" <beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20001223223540.21063.00002875@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> He has "several" dogs and they have begun attacking
> one of his young females whenever he is out of sight,
> although they all seem to get along when he is there
> Is there a specific training method to correct this problem?
Has he tried seperating or crating the dogs when he isn't in sight?
Beth
Bethgsd
From: beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bethgsd)
Date: 2000/11/11
Subject: Re: Prong Collars
> However, since switching from a normal collar to a training
> collar, I have been having problems with aggression and
> leash biting as described in my original post.
Liz,
Have you tried going back to whatever collar
you were using before you started class?
Beth
From: beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bethgsd)
Date: 29 Aug 2000 01:17:18 GMT
Subject: Re: More Koehler Training
Ron,
I think Jerry must be VERY bored as he is posting
his nonesense to aged posts.
Those of us that actually train our dogs, not image
all sorts of BS, know the use and genius of Koehler,
whether we train the Koehler method or not.
Beth
Date: 2000/11/11
Subject: Re: Prong Collars
Beth - I was just using a normal material collar before,
and I am going to try just using that this week. I thought
I would give the prong collar a fair try, and I am going to
ask the trainer on Monday if I may be using it incorrectly.
Thanks for replying.
Liz
Bethgsd" <beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20010512074538.03385.00002209@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> "Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin" fmkaf...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>>> Leah - the poor man is fixated on how evil women are and in
>>> particular female dog trainers
>> Oh, that's quite obvious. He's far more polite to males,
>> no matter what kind of tripe they post.
Well, once again here is where I stick my nose in:-)
Dogman and I have had our disagreements on various
issues in the past.
However, we have each treated the other with mutal respect.
No problem.
Beth
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:14:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Training School-T.V. Show
Hello bethgsd,
"Bethgsd" <beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20020304191035.16764.00001533@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Hmmm... so in your way of training the dog is never done training??
That's correct. When you force train a dog they ALWAYS
need REINFORCEMENT. That's another reason HOWE
COME Jerry don't hurt or force dogs to train them.
> >So, IOW, the dogs you train
> >are never considered completely trained?
That's correct. Sez so on sindy "don't let the dog
SCREAM" mooreon's forced fetch page at k9web.
> How many serious trainers here consider their dogs done training?
That's the kind of question I'd expect from someone who
isn't able to understand enough to outwit the cunning of
the domestic puppy dog or you wouldn't NEED to HURT them.
Wouldn't you?
> Part of the idea of training for me is that we are
> always learning something new or working on
> making something better.
INDEED. That's HOWE COME you bums choke and
shock dogs and call that training. As trainers, you SUCK.
> JMHO
We don't NEED dog abusers here. We've got fast gentle
effective methods. You don't. Hurting dogs gets some
of them DEAD.
> Beth
From: Bethgsd (beth...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Moon was shocked,
Date: 1999/09/11
> Do you have that reliable recall, the first time, every time?
Yes, I do. It has been ~ 3 years since I had to
resort to the e collar and there has been no need
for a brush up. And since you still haven't listed
the dogs you've trained and their titles, your opinion
doesn't hold water with me.
---
From: Jerry Howe (jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Moon was shocked,
Date: 1999/09/10
Bethgsd wrote:
> My co-worker has agreed to bring in his Tritonics next
> week for me to try it on myself so I can see if these
> so called *burns* actually exist. ( I don't have a millionth
> of the hair on my neck as the Sheps do).
Terri,
As we all know Jerry is a Jackass. I resorted to a
"shock" collar my self when Zivia decided that she
didn't have to come.
I don't like electronic collars, but in a matter of
life or death, and I feel that ignoring a recall come
and in the park could become a matter of life or death,
they are well warranted.
Some how or another I consider s**** proofing in the
same catagory. Any hoo, to get back on subject, I used
the collar I rented for Zivia on myself, pleasant no.
Cruel, not hardly.
Beth
Bethgsd wrote:
> > Beth,
> > please do tell what you do with primates!?!?
> I train them to ride in what are called restraint chairs
Tell us Moore Beth ("I may be fat, but I'm fit") gsd, about
what you do to the monkeys once they are locked down into
the fun and happy "restraint chairs"
Is it anything like this?:
From: Bk1492 (bk1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: animal experimentation -20,000,000 animals are
experimented on every year Newsgroups: nj.general
Date: 2002-05-30 15:25:47 PST
the NIH spends $8 billions of our federal tax
dollars on animal experiments every year.
Animal experimentation is increasing - 37% over ten years.
The University of Pennsylvania receives over $200 million a
year from the NIH to perform animal experiments. Johns
Hopkins gets $l80 million every year. These facilities
don't care how many animals die. They only want the MONEY.
Researcher Charles Gross has been experimenting on macaque
monkeys since l97l. l97l!!!!
In this experiment, titanium screws are drilled into the
skull of each monkey. The monkey is confined to a restraint
chair with the head bolted in place and electrodes forced
into the brain. The monkey is deprived of water for as
much as 20 hours at a time. fruit juice is the reward.
the suffering that the monkeys endure is excrutiating.
this is TORTURE.
This research brings $390,000 into Princeton. And a
substantial ****tion of that goes to Charles Gross.
STOP ANIMAL EXPLOITATION NOW.
SEE???
AND LIKE THIS:
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
----------------
SEE??
AND LIKE THIS:
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
----------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
~emily is a vivisectionist for a med research laboratory.
------------------
SEE??
AND LIKE THIS:
"After Numerous Training Cl*****, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unim****tant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
---------------
SEE??
Here's janet's PARTNER:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context,"
sinofa***** writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
No, there was ONLY WON quote.
> > took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> > cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> > then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofa*****" instead of sionnach.
> > Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> > The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> > when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> > and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofa***** totally DENIES.
> > is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofa*****.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
Here's HOWER DOG LOVER PAL an janet's
REAL LIFE IN PERSON "students" paul an Muttley:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
Hello everyone:
If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.
I will add a bit more history later in this post.
Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.
The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.
I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pu****ng his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.
Muttley took the op****tunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.
That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.
When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.
She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.
She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.
"They can't all be saved".
<snip>
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience cl***** at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Of curse, those methods sometimes end in disaster <{}:* ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
Subject: Re: untrainable beagle! NEED HELP
"diddy" <di...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:Xns9834C98CEC696danny@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> in thread news:BO2Lg.4755$xV.1684@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"graham
> fandango!" <gmey...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> whittled the following words:
> i have a ten year old beagle who i got from the animal
> shelter 5 years ago. its pretty clear he was abused in
> some form before he ended up in the shelter; when ever
> i reach for something, like the tv remote, too quickly he
> flinches. he gets scared when i sweep the kitchen floor
> and hides under the bed.
I have one too. I don't know her past history,or her age.
I use an antibark collar on her for my sanity. She's very
quiet, until I take it off. It doesn't train her not to bark,
because she barks when the collar is off. (beagles "Do
that")
There may not even be batteries in it, but she doesn't
bark... just in case.I'd supervise the first time you try
it, because I've heard of some dogs barking, and going
so spazzy over them that they died.
I really don't think you are going to train a dog that
age, especially a beagle, NOT to bark. I see your
options as being:
1) anti-bark collar
a)citronella
b)electronic
c)bark buster (your neighbors will
probably complain asmuch about
that as the howlng)
2) surgical debarking
3) placing the dog and accepting the consequences
4) moving
-----------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"diddy" <none> wrote in message
news:Xns9A74B7CCF8817diddydiddynet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<barneytoe@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> spoke these words of wisdom in news:
5a8c97ed-06aa-
4211-b345-b49062effd09@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> The shock is minimal and nothing to worry about.
>
> There are 2 different types that frequent this group:
> the high falutin city folk that believe dogs should be
> treated like children, and the answer for any problem
> is "enroll them in class and spend $300 to teach them
> not to do it, and put them in time-out, but be sure
> their paw socks are on before stepping outside if under
> 50 degrees, etc."
First, I know of a dog with an antibark collar, who
protested so violently, he spazzed out and killed himself.
He was found dead in his kennel the next morning.
What dog training schools charge $300?
------------
And here's the PREDICTABLE results:
"diddy" <di...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
Subject: Re: The kind of mess uneducated breeders are making
No idea what he is. He's supposed to be part chow, but he
looks more aussie/duck tolling retriever to me than anything
with a pomeranian tail.
His facial animations are hilarious, you can see the wheels
turning, and he's very engaging. The down side is, a kid from
next door came over and pulled his ears, and he bit the kid on
the face resulting in a $300,000 plastic surgery.
I have a zero tolerance for dog bites, and would normally
put a dog that did that down, but this dog was the victim
here.
----------------
SEE?
LIKE THIS:
"Nelson is definately the real deal," lynn k:
From: Lynn Kosmakos
Date: Fri, Nov 3 2000 1:41 am
Email: Lynn Kosmakos <lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Lori wrote:
> There is no TEMPERMENT too good to ruin OR
> too bad to save. The dog's heart & soul become
> reflex reaction to it's treatment.
Lori, I sincerely wish that were true. (the too bad
to save part)
There is innate temperament that is not shaped by treatment.
The dogs our rescue gets from horrible abuse cases
quickly proves that.
OTOH, I also see dogs that have never had a
single triggering incident who cannot be saved.
I've got such a client right now, a 9 month old
GSD who we've been fighting to save for months.
He's been seen by Jean Donaldson and Leslie Nelson
and a slew of others, and has received nothing by loving
care all his life.
His littermates are normal, his breeding excellent, and
there was no triggering event or medical cause. As
much as it breaks my heart, the dog cannot be saved.
Lynn K.
-------------------
THAT'S INSANE, AIN'T IT <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue:
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is im****tant - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
------------------------
SEE?
HERE'S HOWE COME:
R.P.D.B. Syndrome
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
UNSKILLED AND UNAWARE OF IT: HOW DIFFICULTIES
IN RECOGNIZING ONE'S OWN INCOMPETENCE LEAD
TO INFLATED SELF-*****SMENTS
Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants
scoring in the bottom quartile... grossly overestimated
their best performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated
themselves to be in the 62nd.
- Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.
- Sufficiently advanced incompetence is
indistinguishable from malice.
- Insufficiently advanced malice is
indistinguishable from incompetence.
------------------------
SEE?
LIKE THIS:
"dallygirl" <kwickw...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many
>cases causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of
dogs' well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
=============
SEE??
We AIN'T GOT nodoGdameneD agendas here, do we <{}: ~ ( >
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
|
