HOWEDY Whitesoul,
"Whitesoul" <Shanontay@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:045e1441-055d-4467-a2cc-4fba5eee92ca@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
*****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method
Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory.
I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research <{}: ~ ) >
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm
The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.
There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}': ~ ) >
> I think be able to train your dog to being an
> obedient and kind dog is very im****tant.
Of curse~!
Most of your fellHOWE dog lovers here enjoy training
their dogs no matter HOWE much it hurts them to do so.
LIKE THIS:
Here's elegy FRUSTRATING her dog who's GOIN INSANE
pullin against her pronged spiked pinch choke collar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzBtxevvcFs&mode=user&search=
Here's janet boss, a PROFESSIONAL dog trainer:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt
"J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?
Here's sionnach, janet's PARTNER:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context,"
sinofa***** writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
No, there was ONLY WON quote.
> > took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> > cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> > then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofa*****" instead of sionnach.
> > Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> > The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> > when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> > and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofa***** totally DENIES.
> > is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofa*****.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
janet CONtinues:
> > My dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
> > I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
> > should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
> > your dog(s).
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
-------------------
Here's janet's STUDENT, paul e. schoen:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
Hello everyone:
If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.
I will add a bit more history later in this post.
Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.
The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.
I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pu****ng his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.
Muttley took the op****tunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.
That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.
When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.
She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.
She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.
"They can't all be saved".
<snip>
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience cl***** at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
> However I don't have the house for a dog or I'd most
> likely get a small one. But my aunt and many family
> members have dogs =)
Dogs don't need large HOWEses to be happy.
> I have 2 success stories that I would like to share with you.
>
> I use to have dog named Sandy, I was a younger kid and
> she passed away from cancer roughly 5 years ago.
MOST cancers are CAUSED BY STRESS from toxic
veterinary malpractices and STRESS from MISHANDLING.
> I was pretty sad but - she was a fierce dog who was well trained.
Good for you~!
> She was a beast in my point of view.
Ain't they all??
> She would roll over when you said sit, but then she would sit.
Sounds like she was PLAYING but it could have been
a symptom of stress or maybe she was just malingering.
> We trained her to the max, and even when we thought she
> was the best trained dog ever, when she made a mistake
Well trained dogs seldom make mistakes.
> (we made sure she knew it)
Oh well, THAT'S HOWE COME she "made mistakes":
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.
"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.
A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!
The Embry Study:
"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.
Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason
with their children about da****ng into the street will
likely to have the opposite impact.
Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward it."
Source:
"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Re****t
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."
Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paul:
#2 - 6/05/07
>> When I was training him under Janet's supervision
>> I was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
>
> I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
> yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
>> She was able to get his attention with
>> just a quick tug, but I had to yank on it
>> hard enough to lift him off his feet to get
>> him to respond. Looking back now, I think
>> it was based on his fear, which he had for
>> her (as an unknown), but not for me
>> (whom he had learned to trust).
>
> He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a
> confident trainer. Fear has no place in dog
> training, as I told you THEN.
> Janet
It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.
Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.
Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.
Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.
Paul and Muttley
"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step onthe leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.
I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.
I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.
Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
-----------------------
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07
"Janet Boss" <ja...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:janet-730AB8.17321511042007@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.
What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.
I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have enough
obedience to avoid it.
While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.
We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
> and when she did something right, we
> congratulated her with a nice doggy bone.
Dogs should NEVER be fed bones. You probably meant
to say she was congratulated with a nice COOKIE:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
> All-in-All she was well trained from my standards
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) re****t a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are re****ted to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated.
Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists."
Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of
programmed systems for learning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST
SURELY DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers."
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).
Some clinics have re****ted ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental
HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents tem****arily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment:
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:
If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.
People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.
The need for punishment seems to have the sup****t
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.
Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.
----------------------------
> but this second story..blew my mind.
>
> The second story is from my aunt, who is a pet fanatic but
> yet her dogs and even her cats are ridiculously well trained
> it seems like she trained them to the max.
That's curiHOWES.
Effective training methods work NEARLY INSTANTLY:
Re: Your Training Modality is Driving Your Dogs Crazy
Leah: >> Is there something wrong with being curious?
Morrison: > You're not curious, Leah. IMO, you're just wishy-washy.
Kelley: I don't have the same history that you seem
to have with Leah, but I hardly think being open to
exploring new ideas qualifies as being "wishy-washy".
To me it shows intelligence. But then, from what I've
seen, you've demonstrated a singular kind of black
and-white mentality and a highly ignorant closed-mindedness.
Morrison: > You keep thinking that there's some "new"
> method out there that will VOILA!, magically
> transform you into a great trainer, and overnight, too.
> It just doesn't work that way.
Kelley: Actually, that's *exactly* how it worked with me.
Within the first day of using these techniques I went from
becoming a run-of-the-mill dog trainer to being pretty damn
good, if I do say so myself, and all simply by testing the
techniques, just to see if they worked.
I've said from the beginning that if I can get the kind of
amazing results I do when I'm not really a dog trainer at
heart, but a writer, then someone who's really a dog trainer
at heart would become a far better trainer than I am instantly,
just by using these methods.
Somewhere along the line, however, I discovered a dirty
little secret about the mentality of most dog trainers: they
only *became* trainers because they liked the feeling of
power and control it gave them. If that's the case with
you, then you definitely wouldn't like natural dog training
because it ultimately teaches a dog how to control his own
behavior.
In fact in some ways, it forces you to turn your need for
control over to the dog because the method only works
when you put your trust in a dog's natural instincts
instead of fighting against them all the time.
That's because when you put yourself in alignment
with a dog's instincts, the dog will naturally obey
you under any and all cir***stances because group
harmony and cooperation, when properly nurtured,
are the most fundamental aspects of a dog's nature.
I came across the following quote recently, and though
I have no idea who Edward Hoagland is, I think what
he says here speaks volumes: "In order to really enjoy
a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi-human.
The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of
becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland
Leah: >> This "praise the dog when he misbehaves" thing
>> keeps coming up, and nobody has been able to
>> explain it to me.
Morrison: > That's because no one can.
Actually, Jerry Howe explains it pretty well.
And as for the incident I related where I praised my
dog when he found a juicy chicken breast and my praise
caused him to drop it, and subsequently got him to stop
scavenging altogether, merely by praising him everytime
he found something, the answer is pretty clear.
He didn't pick up that chicken breast because he was
hungry, he did it because he was looking for something
to do that would satisfy an inner emotional need, relating
to his instincts.
When I praised him, suddenly and very enthusiastically, he
dropped the chicken breast because the praise provided him
with more emotional satisfaction than the chicken breast
did at that particular moment.
You could look at this as being an example of pure
operant conditioning, if you like (though you'd be
wrong), but it would still mean that you would have
to give up your beliefs about what praise is and how
and why it works, and you don't strike me as someone
who's capable of even *questioning* your beliefs, let
alone capable of giving them up.
Morrison: > every single method out there is based
> on CC and/or OC. That's a fact.
No, it's not a fact. The only reason it seems factual to
you is because the basic premise of behavioral science is
tautological in nature (and also because, IMO, you have a
tiny mind).
In my estimation it's more likely that there are little
green men on Mars than that what you think is operant
conditioning is what's really taking place when a dog
learns *anything*.
Dogs do not learn things by association or by repetition
or by trial and error, but through their emotions, pure
and simple.
Even Pavlov said: "Positive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic
significance at a given moment, serve as the reinforcement."
Of course, even Pavlov got it wrong on the most basic
level, since there really is no such thing as a reinforcement,
but that's another story for another day.
---------------------------
> I went over one day, the dogs basically attacked me because
> they are defensive around the other dog
You mean the other dog triggers them.
> but as soon as she called out and saw me ready to run away,
> they listened and sat down and just made me feel welcome,
> in a doggy kind of way. It was scary, I don't usually see my
> aunt to much or go over there but I went over there (she
> usually came to my house to talk with my parents so I really
> didn't have a need to go to her house) to discuss religion,
> and now that's a whole different story. ;-)
Yeah. MOST of your newfHOWEND fellHOWE dog lovers
here are aethists, agnostics, and practicing Satanists.
> Anyhow
You mean 'anyHOWE' <{}'; ~ ) >
> It was very interesting see pets , she has 3 dogs, 1 who was
> abused and beat, which is scared of any human being, maybe
> that's why they were acting so defensive against "Buffy" but I
> noticed as soon as the other dogs were welcoming me, Buffy
> decided she would give me a shot too and she did, she was
> hesitant at letting me touch her, but after my aunt said "Its ok."
> She allowed me to rub her head, and boy did she enjoy it.
Good for you and your auntie~!
> It was amazing and I asked her why are her dogs so
> obedient and she told me about Sit Stay and Fetch.
Permit me to tell you something about "sitstayfetch.com".
That's a SCAM. It's part of the adam katz / cesar millan *(z dog
wheeesperer) MAFIA. They're lyin dog abusin cowards who'll
do an say ANY THING to teach you HOWE to HURT and
INTIMIDATE you dog an SELL you a $400.00 SHOCK
COLLAR along with PROFESSIONAL SHOCK COLLAR
TRAINING LESSONS.
daniel stevens is the front man for the scam. He SELLS a
highly INEFFECTIVE method of bribing and locking dogs
in boxes and ignoring their cries, but it's GUARANTEED
to work. When his method FAILS, the MAFIA sells you
the next incrementally brutal idiotic training method.
When the final phase of GUARANTEED gentle training methods
FAIL, the adam katz / cesar millan MAFIA advises you that you've
TRIED all of the "positive reinforcement" methods and recommend
that you buy their SHOCK COLLAR and HIRE a PROFESSIONAL
MAFIA webring trainer <{}: ~ ( >
> I was skeptical at first and unbelieving of an internet scheme
As well you should be.
> but then she showed me what she got in her email from ordering
> Sit Stay and Fetch. It was a lot of information but she was able to
> pick the worse things out the dogs habits were to fix them.
You mean, like the aggression you just mentioned. Had the
dogs been pupperly handled an trained they would NOT have
TRIED to attack you and the owner would NOT have to be
IN CON-TROLL to CON-TROLL the dogs, they'd LEARN
HOWE to behave pupperly and would CON-TROLL themselves
*(HOWEDY malinda, regards to "Big Phil").
> One being always trying to start fights with
> other dogs and among themselves over food.
Like THAT, for EXXXAMPLE. Food aggression is CAUSED
BY insecurity in the owner bein able to provide for their needs.
THAT'S CAUSED BY offering and witholding bribes and lockin
dogs in boxes and taking away their food if they don't finish it
right away.
> I believed her after reading some of the material presented from
> Sit Stay and Fetch. I also have had my grandparents buy a copy
> and they loved it...
Of curse~!
The "method" relies on CONSTANT FORCED CON-TROLL.
That makes folks THINK that they're TRAININ their dogs and
keeps them occupied.
> even though they have a hard time getting around,
> their dogs are their life and so is gambling ^^
You won't find many gamblers here, your newfHOWEND
fellHOWE dog lover pals prefer a SHORE thing:
From: sionnach (rhyfe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
> And Sally responded:
> > Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> > that, and neither would most of the regulars
> > on here.
> >Sally Hennessey
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed
> to do so. Take it out of context and you'd think
> I was flinging puppies across the room!
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're
> talking about a 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy
is very persistant, it can be appropriate to take
hold of the loose skin at the back of the neck and
give a slight shake to the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."
----------------------
"After Numerous Training Cl*****, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unim****tant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
---------------
> they can afford it
"LUCK is for SUCKERS. NEVER make a SUCKER'S
bet," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{}'; ~ ) >
> and I am thinking about buying Sit Stay and Fetch as
> a gift for my uncle since his birthday is soon and he
> has a beautiful dog.
From: Robin Barr <robinba...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:50:58 -0800
Subject: Re: HELP needed ASAP
In article <O31ud.13611$r72.108...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
regimbalm <regimb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> MauiJNP wrote:
> > my dog tries to jump up on the table. he did it today
> > when I wasn't there and he ate my nephew's food. My
> > sister was home, I wasn't. My mom said if he does it
> > again, he will have to find a new house. I believe her.
> > She will kick him (rather us as I will never get rid of
> > him) out.
>
> > what should I do?
> > she I squirt him with water when he tries to jump on
> > the chairs? I don't want to have to smack him bottom
> > or nose or something like that.
>
> > Should I feed him from the table so he is not so
> > desparate to get up there? or will that make it worse?
> > right now, he NEVER gets anything from the table.
> > thanks for any help.
>
> why don't you tie him outside during the meals and if he
> try to go on the table do the same go tie him and verbally
> reprehend him . He needs to learn it's not ok to jump on
> table.
> I would also suggest you go a do basic obedience training
> you need to learn how to control your dog, good luck
I'm only jumping in on this thread now, so don't know if
the Puppy Wizard responded to the original poster with a
link to his Wit's End Dog Training Manual, which he offers
at no cost. Although you are correct to say the dog needs
to learn to not jump on the table, and your suggestion would
certainly contain the dog, I don't think it would TEACH the
dog very effectively or quickly.
The Puppy Wizard (Jerry) offers a very quick, kind and
gentle way to teach a dog anything, even eliminating
separation anxiety and allergies.
I hope the original poster sees this, and if you own a dog,
perhaps you might be interested in taking a look also. You'll
find it's so much quicker (and kinder, and gentler) than any
other method.
The proof is in the pudding, right? Just give it a try.
You've heard the old saying, you get more with honey than
vinegar.
If you do try this method and find it effective, please pass
it on to other pet owners. You'll be doing a good deed. I'm
planning to email it to my friends, relatives, and business
associates whoare pet owners as a Christmas or Chanukah gift.
And more, if you have any questions about the training
method, or run into difficulties, unlike the tone of many
of the Puppy Wizard's posts (aka the Grim Reaper), you'll
find him extremely helpful, always available, patient (yes,
said patient:) and kind (yes, I said kind:).
================
> Now I do suggest this because I have seen it in action and you
> have my word for it. If you do have any questions about you can
> email me at Shanontay@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
and I will go ask my aunt
> (she lives down the street).
From: Mike (m.bidd...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm.
My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.
Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
-----------------------
> Here is the link if your interested in getting Sit Stay and Fetch :
That's ABSURD:
Discussion subject changed to "But it's working!!!" by BlueMoon
4. From: "BlueMoon" <martha.br...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 24 Jun 2006 10:18:27 -0700
Subject: Training two at once
BlueMoon wrote:
Well, I'd take your advice and go thru the killfile as
you have recommended below, but Jerry's system Is
WORKING wonders with these two puppies in a
matter of days.
He may be abusive and short-tempered with some
people out there because, quite frankly, I think he
cares more about the dogs that the owner's feelings
and feels so strongly about it, it's aggravating to have
"experts" discount his methods.
My husband just got back from taking these 15 week
old pups for a walk, who now respond remarkably
well to the "Zena-Zoey-sit-good-girl!" phrase now
when only said once no matter where they are.
They also respond to the come here command. We
trained them (granted, out of order of the instructions)
with the pennies in the cans only two days ago to come
to us when called.
I've since backtracked to do the exercises in the proper order.
They are calm and well-behaved and impress the Hell
out of anyone who sees them. "You're kidding, they're
only 14 weeks old and they are THAT well behaved?"
Yessiree Bob, they are, and we've only had them
for 12 days and have been training them (correctly
for 3 days.
We still have more training exercises to do, but
why fix something if it's not broken???? These
dogs are happy, we don't have to yell at or scold
them, they are learning to be secure and to pay
attention to us for approval and not out of fear.
I can only assume some might be threatened by this
manual's methods because it goes against all human
logic on how to train a dog. It certainly didn't
make any sense to me, but I thought what the heck,
try it (even tho I still have to remind myself what
to do because my previous limited experiences with
dog training were SO DIFFERENT to the point that I
almost felt like I needed to take my brain out of
my head and put it back in backwards!!!.....).....
BUT THE SYSTEM WORKS!!!
How in the world could someone just "make
something up" and it WORK?>??>?
My husband was very doubtful about this method
when I told him I wanted to try this. His dad was
a vet, and certainly didn't use these methods with
the parade of dogs they had as kids. But now even
HE has to admit we're doing something right here,
as our stress and frustration levels have lowered
and EVERYONE is much happier around here,
especially the dogs!
I really don't think people are used to the notion that
you can train a dog and it NOT be stressful or difficult.
It's easy IF you do it just like the manual says. It might
be easier for some to NOT do it now and go with the
concept of control rather than respect and understanding,
because that's the way WE are used to thinking and
heaven forbid WE change OUR way of thinking and
admit we've done some counterproductive things in
the past, right?
The results I'm seeing here with these puppies speaks
volumes and discounts what anyone tells me otherwise.
This Wit's End manual is now in a binder
and we're sticking with it.
BlueMoon
------------------------
8. From: "starrk...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <starrk...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 27 Jun 2006 19:37:25 -0700
Subject: Re: But it's working!!!
BlueMoon wrote:
> The results I'm seeing here with these puppies speaks volumes
> and discounts what anyone tells me otherwise. This Wit's End
> manual is now in a binder and we're sticking with it.
> BlueMoon
Hi BlueMoon,
Its great that your pups are doing so well. The Wits End
method IS THE BEST WAY TO GO:-)
i wish i had found Jerry when my dog was a puppy, would
have saved so much trouble (and money).
good luck,
Crystal
--------------------------
SEE?
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