HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka not so handsome,
not so happy, not so gentle, not so manly, jackass,
not even jack morrison aka joey finnochiarrio aka
howie lip****z aka BIG DADDY aka DOGMAN,
a.k.a. *****MAN, you pathetic miserable stinkin
anonymHOWES malignant maliciHOWES lyin dog
child an spHOWES abusing punk thug coward active
accute chronic life long incurable mental case and
paranoid homophobe, misogynist, puppy miller and
shock collar salesman,
"Handsome "Jack" Morrison" <handsomejackmorrison@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
message
news:5fi854duq834hqovcdi9gdrrprmmmklpoq@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:36:19 -0600, FurPaw <furrealpawdog@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
>
>>Now here's a question for all. At what age did your dogs develop
>>a rock-solid (or even pretty solid) recall, or response to other
>>commands, especially in the face of distraction, and how much
>>effort did you put into developing that?
ANY command can be installed as a Pavlovian COnditional
REFLEX in just a couple of minutes if you know HOWE.
> Please, allow me to "bloviate" a bit more.
Oh? You want to talk trainin, tommy?:
tommy wrote:
From: dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Dogman) Date: 1997/11/11
Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding *****sment
This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole, distortion,
lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely out of context,
instead.
What lying hypocrites these hand-wringers are!
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> First, rock-solid recalls (and the immediate and correct response
> to commands) are directly related to how much time and effort a
> dog's owner is willing to devote to training, including training
> with distractions. And how often everything is reinforced.
THAT'S ABSURD, tommy.
Dogs CAN learn to come to their names nearly instantly simply
by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE
of HOWE you prefer, tommy.
My method teaches the owner HOWE to install the come
command as a 100% CONSISTENTLY RELIABLE
Pavlovian conditional reflex in just a couple of minutes.
LIKE THIS:
> ballzde...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10
> minutes of work and the cans from mr Howes guide,
You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
> I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.
Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command
as a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.
> He is an extremley smart dog, I have never had
> to go to the third or fourth try.
---------------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like
A Miracle - WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!
Sun****ne is still acting like a new dog! Saw a dog
today and "good boy-" worked along with calling him-
came the first time every time. Not even a sound out
of him. Think it is hard for him but he never even
seemed to think about going off-reacting. I would
love to write a testimonial but can not seem to find
the site--please send the address--
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits
End. I had been working for 18 months!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still
comes from anywhere with the command-
"comegoodboy" Next I tried the can when walking
him--when he saw a dog three blocks away he went
off-lunging and snapping-I used the can sound and
he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just
walked on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people
look at me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle
leader in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him-
-we can now enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
The word come has no affect on him just the phrase-
-Sun****ne come goodboy.
--------------------------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
Hi, Jerry.
I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).
For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').
Best, ben
------------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:52:30 -0500
Re: Puppy Wizard's Website
Hi Buzzsaw
Not a Thing to lose ...But a Lot To Gain!!
I can only speak from my experience.. I have a 8 month
old miniature poodle, and although I had done some basic
training with him we had a few barking issues ..ugh
I am happy to tell you, I contacted Jerry at the email
addy I posted and he was so great! I wasn't following
the technique precisely but he helped me get back on track.
Beau is doing sooooo well it is really a thrill working
with him, and seeing the remarkable changes.
Now I can ask for "recall" (come) both on and off lead
and it is immediate!
the first time I ask.
Best of Luck to you,
Remember if you need help or explanation contact Jerry ..
he will be more than happy to help anyway he can.
Cheers
Barb
--------------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
"Greg M. Silverman" <gmsNOS...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever your alias
of the day is, have to say that our dog heels much
better than she did. This is after reading and
implementing the bit in your "Wits End" treatise.
And she's a royal nutter (but then again, aren't they all?).
Cheers! Greg--
--------------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM
Hello.
I never posted here (or anywhere) before. I
never trained or owned a dog before this year.
I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.
Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.
I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.
I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.
A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.
We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he isvery eager to accept our love.
So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.
His method worked for us.
I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.
Florence
---------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
"Leprechaun" <Leprech...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:m01Hc.20882$uK.16329@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.
His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!
> and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.
You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.
<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida
-----------------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
"Hennie van Dalen" <h.vandalen11***removethis...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message news:TlsCb.2895$7U1.7896@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
is age-old computer lingo.... It stands for "Read The
F***ing Manual" ;-) I used the manual and it works very good!
But it is a long text to read (76 pages printed on A4-size
paper) My lab is 1year old now, and teaching him something
new takes about 30minutes (depending on what to teach offcourse)
My other dog (a 7year old stafford****re terrier-mix) is a bit
slower in learning, but he is used to me calling him a "bad
dog"whenever he did something i didn't want him to do, or
it might be the age.
Sometimes it looks like Sam (the lab) WANTS to learn
something new: he wants me to bring along the can
filled with washers whenever we go for a walk. It is a
very "humane" way of teaching: the dog is allways a
"good dog", and never a "bad dog"
There is nu punishment or prong-collars involved.
For a fact i tought him to heel in 15min's without
beeing on a leach at-all !!!
When he spotted a dog, he used to run towards it, but now
i tought him to "ask permission" first, and to my surprise
it worked!
My dogs never went to puppy-training (lucky for them),
maybe this helped too.
Manual can be found at http://www.doggydoright.com/id3.html
-- Hennie van Dalen www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11/fotografie/doggy-pictures/
--------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
"Paul B" <some...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3edc57c5@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When I trained both my dogs to "heel" or walk close
to me I ended up going to the parks and teaching
them without a lead at all, that ensured I had to use
good communication and was unable to be tempted
to use the lead to correct them.
Another part of the training I agree with is not using
the "policeman" approach, where you tell a dog "no"
or react with it in such a way that you become involved
in the behaviour (by trying to stop it), this approach
often results in a dog ceasing the behaviour when you
are about but doing it when you aren't (bin raiding,
counter surfing etc).
Basically you are taught to make your dog a good
friend who likes and wants to work for you for the
pleasure of working for you (setting the hierarchy
is included in this), teach it to recall reliably,
then to do everything else (sit, stay down etc etc).
Unwanted behaviours are addressed as they occur.
If you understand what you are trying to achieve and
are prepared to work with it you can get great results.
Paul
--------------
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: uim43blqq1h...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I gotta speak up here... We've been using
Jerry's methods with our dog. We had the same
problem as the original poster has with Buzz.
One day working with the family pack exercise
and practicing the recall command with the family
and she'll now go out with hubby and daughter
instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.
I really urge you, regardless of the negative
things you might hear about Jerry & Wits'
End here, to try the method and *judge the
results for yourself*.
Let's see what other areas she's improved in...
always comes when called, not chewing stuff
even if we leave it laying around, "re" housebroken
after long shelter stay, walks perfectly on leash,
doesn't try to steal food from our plates or beg...
probably a few more things I'm forgetting to mention.
*(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi and don't wander. jh).
That's in about a week's time.
Her overall demeanor has changed. When
we brought her home she was very untrusting
and ultra-submissive (except with her area/toys
where she was possessive and nippy).
She had been abused and beaten by previous
owners, then she was in a shelter for months.
They (most of them) wanted to give up and kill
her.
Now she's gained confidenceand trust with us.
Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she
barked just once when she heard the front
door. Great!
Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about
Jerry or that the Wits' End manual is culled
from other sources. In my opinion, even if it
is, it takes only the good stuff and leaves
out the bad.
Works for me.
(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know
Jerry personally. I've emailed him and instant
messaged him. I have not bought a "Doggy
Do Right". He's offered help for free.)
M.
--
Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com
& http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
& Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227
--------------------
SEE?
I could give you a few dozen more POSTED CASE
HISTORIES of folks who've learned how to install
the come command as a conditional reflex in just a
few minutes using EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL
SCIENTIFIC Pavlovian and Ericksonian CONditioning,
but it'd maybe appear that I was actin like a RAPED
APE jumpin all over you, so I won't <{}: ~ ) >
> And second, how effective the training techniques employed are.
Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS, tommy?:
From: lucyaa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mon, May 23 2005 1:08 am
Email: lucyaa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Anyone else have an opinion?
I'm not a trainer and my experience is limited to my two dogs, so take
it for what it's worth. As someone who had to deal with a puppy who
had his own ideas about what was and what wasn't "proper behavior",
I was very happy to find The Amazing Puppy Wizard's dog training
method.
It is a method that is gentle to the dog, very easy to apply and it has
been working wonderfully with both my dogs, giving practically instant
results. It was as if I had been given the "key" to understanding and
controlling my puppy's behavior: suddenly, he was listening to me,
doing what I was asking him to do, instead of constantly opposing me.
It also worked with some issues my older dog had, too - her fear of
thunder, her barking and her aggression towards another female dog.
Don't let either the first impression about the "weirdness" of The
Amazing Puppy Wizard, or the regulars' negative opinion of him
(there's a long history behind it) deter you from at least reading
the manual and deciding for yourself if you want to try it or not.
I wish all the best to you and your dog.
Lucy
--------------------------
> It's really not a matter of the dog's age.
Of curse not, tommy:
From: <n> To: "Jerry Howe"
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leader****p Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
Hi Jerry,
When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had him
for 3 years.
It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book training
with him.
Where I used to say "come" and then say "good boy"
when he obeyed, I have reversed it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work. He was very confused at first,
wondering what he had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.
Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.
Thanks, N
-----------------------------
> And the amount of effort only matters if the technique being used is
> any good at achieving rock-solid recalls and immediate responses to
> commands.
That so, tommy?
Oh? You mean sumpthin LIKE THIS?:
"If I Knew It Would Be That Easy, I Would Have
Done This A Long Time Ago Saving Myself 5 Years
Of Dealing With A Bouncy, Over Excited Dog!" Jenn.
Hello Jenn,
"brijen" <bri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:397cfaa3_1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Hello Jerry, I just wanted to let you know that
> I am trying this right now.
Good.
> I am the woman who wrote to you a while ago about
> trying to walk my dog without the pinch collar.
I recall.
> She also goes APE when I grab the leash. We have been doing
> this technique you recommend for about a half an hour now and
> the results are already fantastic, as well as amusing!
Yeah, dog training should always be more fun than work.
> At first, we went out and I stood there, and Anya kept trying to head
> out to the sidewalk. When I didn't follow, she came and sat beside me
> at heel!
>
> (Thanks to your help!) She'd NEVER done that before.
It's the same principle as in the Hot And Cold Exercise.
> I rewarded that with a few steps of a walk, but we came in after
> about 30 seconds. She stopped and looked at me as if she were
> thinking, "What? But we just got out here!"
>
> The second and third times, she was even MORE eager when
> she saw the leash, and I got the same look when I turned around
> to go back in. The fourth time, she just bounced a bit as she walked
> to the door with me, and sat nicely to wait until I hooked up the
> leash, and this last time, I HAD TO CALL HER TO ME!!!!!!!!!!
Fine. That's because dogs learn on the basis of
four repetitions. That's not to say they can't learn
some things faster, but for breaking habits, it
usually happens the fourth time we repeat a lesson.
Then we need to repeat the lesson at three more
locations our time in each to generalize the idea.
Let's say your dog gets excited when you take her
lead and go to the front door. She would probably
do the same at the back door, but to not such a degree.
Likewise for any other door.
It would behoove you to repeat the exercise with
several other doors and it would be easiest to
start with a door that had less excitement involved
with it.
> If I knew it would be that easy, I would have done this a long time
> ago saving myself 5 years of dealing with a bouncy, over excited dog!
The non force methods work fast and easy
because we are not challenging the dog or
calling our attention to their behavior problems.
> I have to tell you how the walk is going though. I have a lot of
> problems there, but it is all ME. I have been so conditioned to
> "correct" her, that I still find myself yanking on her collar.
Yes, those habits are hard to break. It's easier for
me to train a person who has no experience at all
because they have no bad habits of pulling and
forcing control.
> I feel so awful! We have only been working in the yard without
> distractions, because I honestly don't know what will happen if
> she sees another dog and I won't have the pinch collar to keep
> her from dragging me over for a fight.
You know that working the dog in the back
yard is not preferable, because that causes
them some anxiety because it's their free area.
But with your dog and with the difficulty he is
to handle, I don't see any reason you shouldn't
do the Family Leader****p Exercise and the come
command several times out there, and then you'll
have the control to do it in a more neutral area.
> The upside is, when I take the leash off it's hook and don't take
> the pinch collar, her excitement to go for a walk is NO LONGER
> combined with the intense fear I used to see in her eyes at the sight
> of the pinch!
Our group likes to think that is EXCITEMENT and
eagerness to work. It is sheer terror. The pinch
collar works by overriding the opposition reflex
through fear and that cause tremendous stress
and anxiety that must be released through anxiety
relief mechanisms like barking, digging, whining,
chewing, self mutilation and aggression.
> That does it for me. I can't believe I instilled fear in my beautiful
> dog just for the sake that I didn't know how to train. Well, I still
> don't know how, but I'm learning!
That's where I was three dozen years ago. I was
ready to just quit. I wasn't going to sour any more
dogs to make them work.
> Thanks for your help. Please send more suggestions
> if you saw something I could be doing differently!
> Jenn & Anya
-----------------
SEE?
From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?
> "artbylucy" <artbyl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:OMudnRS23OLEc7zenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for
> > positive-only dog training, in particular clicker
> > training?
> > Thanks,
> > Lucy
Jen wrote:
> I would love to know of one as well. If there was
> enough people interested maybe we could start one.
> I've just started clicker training my dog and have
> been doing the positive training for a while now.
> I think it's great!!
> Jen
Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.
The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.
With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u.
Free download, nothing
sold, no mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free
sup****t if needed.
With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.
Not difficult.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.
You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.
Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.
Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands. Dr. Von
What's im****tant is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
> For example, I would wager a large sum of money that Leah's dog
> *still* has a lousy recall, *still* pulls on its leash, and *still*
> gives Leah the flying fickle finger of fate at every op****tunity.
NO DHOWET, eh, tommy?:
From: Lucy A. Afar
Date: Fri, Oct 15 2004 6:23 am
Email: lucyaa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Lucy A. Afar)
dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Leah) wrote in message
<news:20041011160127.16411.00004052@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
> > lucyaa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> >> Better qualified people (and ones who are not certifiable)
> >> have advocated these methods long before Jerry ever thought
> >> of it.
>
> > If this is so, then why are these methods
> > being rejected and ridiculed, in this group?
> Because Jerry touts them as "one size fits all" methods.
> They're not.
Have you tried them, Leah? Have you tried to follow exactly
Jerry's instructions, and failed to get the desired results?
> They're not even "first try" methods.
Why not? The basic idea is to get the dog to trust you, to
always look at you for leader****p and guidance; what's wrong
with that?
> For example, some dogs are traumatized by sound distractions.
> I certainly wouldn't throw a penny can at a dog unless I was
> pretty darned sure that it wouldn't cause him to pee himself.
He never says that the sound should be startling, much less
traumatizing. The way I understand it, all you have to do is
praise as you use the sound, and the dog won't perceive it
as threatening.
After all, there are lots of louder sounds in the environment
(and Jerry does recommend making use of them, if they happen
at the right time, from the right direction). The idea is just
to DISTRACT the dog, so that he looks at you and you PRAISE him.
Read the manual, everything is there.
> > Judging by the surprise caused here by Lee's suggestion
> > of praising an undesired behavior in order to stop it,
> > I'd have thought that these ideas were far from the
> > accepted norm in dog training.
> Oh, well, that part is nonsensical.
To us, perhaps - but, apparently, not to the dogs. My dogs
react exactly as Lee and Jerry say they should react. It
makes perfect sense to THEM.
> In certain cir***stances, when it's used as classical
> conditioning, it can work. But that involves far more
> than just "praising an undesired behavior." Your praise
> has to be more rewarding to the dog than the behavior,
> enough so that it distracts him from it, and works best
> if it's given *before* the behavior is in gear.
> For example, if he's going after something on the ground,
> you want to distract him before he actually puts it in his
> mouth. If it's yummy enough, he'll wag his tail at your
> praise while he munches on it, and be reinforced that it's
> okay for him to do it.
I say, "Drop it, Clyde, good boy! What a GOOD BOY you are!"
And he drops it. True, not always - because I'm not yet doing
it as Jerry recommends - my human nature getting in the way. :-)
So sometimes I just open his mouth and take the thing out
of his mouth myself. Clyde has no problem with that.
> Repeated enough times in a way that distracts him before
> engaging in the behavior, the dog begins to associate the
> *thought* of the behavior with your praise. So instead of
> engaging in it, when he thinks about it he automatically
> comes to you.
Actually, I distract him with a sound (often a clap of my
hands) and then he looks at me and I praise him. I praise
him for as long as he looks at me. If he resumes the behavior,
I distract him again, with a sound coming from a different
direction - and I praise him, until he either goes back to
whatever he was doing, or does something else. If he goes
back to the undesired behavior, I repeat the procedure, as
above - until he stops and does something acceptable, instead.
It's really simple - and it works. :-)
> But go ahead and praise a dog for chasing a
> squirrel, and see where that gets you. :}
Well, no squirrels here, so I don't have this problem. :-)
But I'm doing it as he heads to the garbage can, and this
stops him. I don't need to pull his leash, he just stops
and turns back.
> And Jerry's plagiarized ideas can't really be considered
> "the norm." You'd have to search to find a trainer who
> uses them.
That's exactly what my impression was, that they were NOT the
norm. As about "plagiarized" - this is a serious accusation;
could you give a reference, from whom did he plagiarize them?
> > I don't know if they do work with all the dogs; what
> > I do know is that they definitely work with MY dogs
>
> I suppose if you're very good at reading dog body language,
> and your timing is spot on, you could get good results with
> this method.
>
> But most dog owners aren't. Which is another reason why
> it's far from a "one size fits all" or "best" method.
I'm not a trainer, Leah; I have two dogs, one that has never
been a problem, the other who was nothing BUT a problem,
for me, who had never had a puppy, before.
Jerry's method worked, on both of them (Bonnie's barking has
become a problem mainly after Clyde arrived, because he did
stress her a lot).
> > My dogs (especially Clyde) are pretty sensitive, too, but
> > the sound I use is not something very loud or startling. I
> > rarely need to use a louder sound than a clap of my hands
> IME, dogs who will be distracted by the sound of a hand
> clap are few and far between. At least, not after the first
> two times.
Well, I KNOW that my dogs are special, in every way. :-)
> Canine Action Dog Trainer
> http://www.canineaction.com
> My Kids, My Students, My Life:
> http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
Lucy
-----------
From: lucyaa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
20 Apr 2005 10:30:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Introducing New Dog to Household Cats
<SNIP>
> > I only know that it works, it works indeed like
> > magic. It works whether it's about getting them
> > to stop barking, or stop fearing the thunder,
> have you ever had a dog who had anxiety problems?
Yes. Bonnie was terrorized by thunder. She was so scared,
that the moment it started to rain she used to go hiding
under the bed and nothing would make her come out of there-
until long after the rain stopped.
> if you have, you'll know that praising them while they're
> anxious is the absolute worst thing you can do. doing so
> with harriet set her progress back beyond square one.
> i've made plenty of mistakes with my dogs, but that one
> was a whopper.
Praising Bonnie allowed me to persuade her to continue
our walk while it started to rain, something that I
couldn't even dream to do, before.
And, during the last thunder storm we had this winter,
she stayed with me almost until the end, while I was
praising her enthusiastically. She was really fighting
the impulse to go hide as usual, and gave in to it only
when a particularly loud thunder startled us both.
> > or stop picking things they shouldn't eat ("Leave
> > it, Clyde, GOOD BOY!" does it,
> if you've taught your dogs the meaning of "leave it"
> then it isn't surprising that they would, in fact,
> "leave it" when you tell them to. not very revolutionary, that.
Oh well - can't take the credit for this one; my dogs
are smart. I didn't specifically TEACH them the meaning
of "leave it", they must have guessed it - and it works
only accompanied by the "GOOD BOY/GIRL!"
> > just as Jerry had told me in this very forum that
> > they'd eventually do, both Clyde and Bonnie almost
> > never pick up anything).
>
> "almost never" isn't good enough.
Well, it's almost good enough for me. <g>
> i'll be more impressed when, after killing a Mr.
> Cottontail, you can get your dogs to drop his half-
> eaten carcass.
What about dropping a nice chicken bone they had just
picked? My dogs don't have many chances to kill anything
around here - did I mention that we live in a city?
> > The can with pennies is NOT intended to be used as
> > any form of punishment - on the contrary, it doesn't
> > work if it IS used thus. The idea is to just DISTRACT
> > the dog
> what do you think a distraction is?
Sorry. I should have said "aversive", not "punishment".
I think that you can distract a dog in a manner in which
the distraction (=sound) is not perceived by the dog as
an aversive, but just as a "What's that?" kind of thing.
It interrupts the dog's behavior without causing him any
negative feelings.
> not that it matters, in my dogs' particular cases.
> one doesn't respond to the noise and the other over
> reacts to it. it's a useless tool for these two dogs,
> no matter what sorts of all-encompassing claims Mr.
> Howe makes.
Have you ever tried it while praising? Not that it matters,
as you say - except for the fact that you can't know if it
works or not, unless you apply it as indicated by the author.
> > that you don't even have to produce the sound yourself: an
> > environmental sound, such as that suddenly made by the motor
> > of a passing car - can be used to this purpose.
> no kidding. i knocked a stack of stainless steel mixing bowls
> off the top of the fridge once. *once*. i've since moved
> them to a lower cupboard where i'm less apt to topple them.
> poor harriet.
Again, praising while producing the sound can make the
whole difference. Otherwise, the sound is merely frightening
and Harriet is perfectly right to stay away from those bowls.
> > I used it once while working with Bonnie on the "Come!"
> > command. The sound came from behind her, right as I had
> > uttered the "Good girl, Bonnie, COME!" and she came
> > straight to me, despite the fact that, just a moment
> > earlier, she had been still hesitant.
>
> to this day, harriet won't go near those damned bowls.
> if i were really interested in keeping her off the kitchen
> counter, all i have to do is leave one of those bowls
> sitting on it. "fool me once..." she says.
Smart girl, your Harriet! And beautiful, too.
Lucy
-------------------------
Hey tommy?
HOWE COME would a EXXXPERT such as yourself set their
INFORMATIVE posts to EXXXPIRE in six days like matty
a.k.a. Rocky, diddler, elegy, meat terri a.k.a. dogsnuts, professora
melanie chang, and not so handsome not so gentle jackass, not even
jack morrison a.k.a. joe finnochiarrio a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a.
DOGMAN?? Ooops~! That last coward is *you*, tommy.
Are you EMBARRASSED by your own words, you lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental case fraud an SCAM ARTIST?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine. What an idiotic response! Whoops.
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAHAAHAAA!~!~!
> --
> Handsome "Jack" Morrison
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) re****t a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are re****ted to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and learning
immediately deteriorated."
B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:
If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.
People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.
The need for punishment seems to have the sup****t
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.
Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.
----------------------------
In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY, you may
substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars
for shock and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING and witholding
attention and affection:
Psychological Effects
At issue is the question, --Do electronic training
devices elicit psychological responses?
"This section cites several research studies in which the
psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices
was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine
the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods
until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in
a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on
what it is, but it varies from dog to dog.
It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect
of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired
need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild.
Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long
term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004).
Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334).
The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral changes in
dogs during training using electronic training collars. Thirty-two
dogs were divided into two groups, each receiving both general
obedience and protection training.
One group was trained with shock collars and the other group
without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars
displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched
yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and
tongue flicking.
It was also noted by the authors that, even during play and relaxed
walking, the group of dogs trained with shock collars continued to
show signs of stress while in the company of their handler.
The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful;
receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock
group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner
(or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even
outside of the normal training context.
They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at
stake, at least in the presence of their owners.
This study has come under considerable fire because the experience
of the handlers and dogs is not clear, and the level of shock is not
stated. With that said, it does suggest that dogs are stressed by the
experience of being shocked during training.
---------------------
Of curse there's PLENTY of folks who WON'T LIKE what
they LEARN as it NULIFIES THEIR LIVES, HOWEver
apupriate handling and training IS a LIFE or DEATH
critteria of ETHICAL BREEDING, MORALS and PRINCIPALS.
Oh, an bye the bye, tommy, you an your punk thug coward
mental case pals can't post your lies idiocy insanity and abuse
here abHOWETS nodoGdameneD more <{}: ~ ) >
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