HOWEDY SteveB,
"SteveB" <toquerville@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:hclaq5-0ul1.ln1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "grinder@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <nobody@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:18-dnWW707YiPU_VnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> But not worth the downside. It only takes once and the dog will not be
>> happy.
>
> How does that equate with dog's thinking, though?
Chewing is a anXXXHOWESNESS relief mechanism.
AnXXXIHOWESNESS is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
LIKE THIS:
"SteveB" <toquerville@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:9cdip5-met1.ln1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
break a dog by timing a knee to the chest or a ****n to
the chest at the moment he jumps up on me. Usually,
it just startles the dog, and causes him to bounce back
a bit.
At the same time, I say a sharp "NO". I will admit that at
times, I have thrown a dog right over on a 3/4 flip with them
landing on their backs. These are the dogs that it usually only
takes once to break.
I immediately bend at the knees and squat down and praise
and pet the dog, teaching them that I will bend down to pet
them, and they don't have to jump up to get petted. After
that, when I see them, I greet them that way, and they will
stay down until you pet them.
Most dogs go away after that, the doggie equivalent of
scratch and sniff greeting.
Sorry I was ambiguous about it, but I know some do not
agree with this technique. To those people, all I can say
is that Skippy ain't about to paw my $100 slacks, thank
you very much.
I have a pound rescue Rott/Lab that is the biggest *****cat
in the world. She must have been a guard dog or guide dog
in another life because she is totally trained, and won't even
eat unless given permission.
I believe she could and would do some damage if danger
actually occurred. We've lessened her rigidity, but she
still sticks to her training at times. She has never once
jumped up on me.
Now, if I could only break her of the doggy handshake
........... (nose to crotch and then the swift lifting of the
nose). My corgi is as hardheaded as any corgi, but he
doesn't jump up either.
Steve
------------------
SEE?
> Does that mean if they get salmonella once, they
> will relate it to a dog treat and not like dog treats any more?
Probably not. HOWEver, there is some belief that happens
when rats eat poisonHOWES substances <{}: ~ ( >
> I have a Lab Rott mix who got ahold of a skunk.
NO PROBLEMO. You can EXXXTINGUISH inapupriate
PRAY DRIVE NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOIN
EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE
of HOWE you PREFER, SteveB <{}'; ~ ) >
LIKE THIS:
From: "lindalee" <llindaleedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 21 Jan 2006 18:34:10 -0800
Subject: Chasing squirrels
I have not posted to the group for awhile but
want to share my success of teaching my dog
Sun****ne, who has a very high prey drive, to
not go after squirrels when on a walk. It
took a few trials but he can now walk right
past squirrels running up a tree or in a yard.
Using Jerry Howe's approach I used a sound to
get his attention when he saw a squirrel and
then praised him and kept on walking past the
squirrel. Where we live in Michigan we lots of
squirrels and he was always wanting to chase
them up a tree. Jerry's approach of sound
and praise really works.
I think the people who discount his methods
have never tried the method because it works
everytine. Sometimes it takes a little practice
to get the sound from different directions but
I was able to change Sun****ne's behavior in
just a week after we moved back to Michigan.
Sun****ne is a very sensitive dog so any physical
corrections just won't work but using sound and
praise he is a really great dog who opens doors,
picks up things I drop, and and helps me a lot.
If you have a behavior problem with your dog get
a copy of Jerrry's manual and solve your problem!
---------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Witsend...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
----------------
LIKE THIS:
Subject: The Amazing ***** Hunter <{}: ~ ) >
<Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_
Laboratory@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:2fb8ddf1-2120-4efa-89d8-8246a560822d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> I thought she had learned her lesson, as the skunk got her good.
Naaah. That only incites them to do it more <{}: ~ ( >
HERE'S HOWE COME:
From: "LeeCharlesKelley" <kelleymet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:08:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Has anyone read . .
dian...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
"Situation:
- Unfenced suburban backyard frequented by deer most of the day
(specifically four does and three fawns right now; it's been a good
year) - Genuinely high-prey drive herding dog Challenge:"
"Nah, it's not MERELY to prevent the dog from chasing the
deer; that would be too darn easy <*g*>. We want the dog to
be so relaxed that the deer don't react with anything more than
an ear-flick when she walks into the yard."
"How would you harness the dog's prey drive to
accomplish that result?"
Kelley replies:
Seconal.
For both the dog and the deer.
We don't have deer in Manhattan, we have squirrels, so the
part about the deer only flicking an ear would not translate
to them.
My dog used to love chasing squirrels, but I trained him out
of the habit, somewhat the same way I'd train a dog who loves
playing fetch to respond to a recall signal, even while he's hot
after a tennis ball or a Frisbee, then turn on a dime, and come
running back even harder and faster and with more energy and
enthusiasm than he had for chasing the ball.
This translates to squirrels, cyclists, or anything else, so I'm sure
that that part of it would translate quite readily to deer or tractors
or whatever you got out where you are that we don't got none of
in these parts.
As for the next step, when the dog goes after a squirrel or cyclist,
etc., and will turn on a dime (off leash) when he hears his recall
signal and then run back harder and faster, etc., he's given a ball
(or Frisbee) to chase as a reward. (The reward for turning on a
dime while chasing a ball or Frisbee is enthuiastic praise and a
lot of happy jumping up and maybe a game of "tag--you're it".)
After a few times of doing these exercises the dog has no further
interest in chasing anything except what his owner wants him to
chase. And *his* "ears don't flicker" anytime he sees a squirrel,
etc.
His drive was now been channeled completely into
the toy (and into his obedience commands).
As for a squirrel showing no fear of a dog, that's pretty tough -- I
don't usually train squirrels. But I'll mention this: about two years
ago a squirrel actually came walking up to my dog and got about
two feet away.
Looked right at Fred and didn't twitch his moustache. Does that
count? I'd say a squirrel that not only doesn't run away, but actually
comes up to a dog, close enough for his life to be over with one
quick lunge, and doesn't twitch his mustache actually trumps a deer
who flicks his ear, while safely standing however many yards away,
wouldn't you?
Fred, by the way, snubbed the little critter. Didn't even look
at him, could have cared less that he was there. I even got the
feeling that if the squirrel had gotten close enough, Fred would've
have just given him a curious nose to nose sniff, the way he'd
sniff another dog, and would've then gone about his business.
Oh, and to use your terminology, Fred is a "high-drive" Dalmatian
who, when he chases something, puts all his energy into it. And I
mean all.
He's really something to watch (or was, he's 12 now and his back
legs are starting to slow him down, but his emotional energy is
still there).
By the way, do I get a prize for this?
LCK
Here's trainer and author LeeCharlesKelley's GENTLE,
EFFECTIVE method bein described by elizabeth naime,
PROFESSIONAL DOG ABUSE TRAININ FRAUD,
SCAM ARTIST and MENTAL PATIENT:
"Elizabeth Naime" <ena...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
message
news:r2itp09ioneibmse2mgmf0eslc5kohb51s@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Quoth Handsome Jack Morrison
> <me10...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> on Sat, 20 Nov 2004
> 02:15:55 GMT,
>
> What's the difference between making, say, a
> hard-charging field-bred retriever (say an equally
> independent Chessie) "reliably do something that is
> completely contrary to its wiring," e.g.,
<SNIP>
Couple of years ago by now, a woman with fox
terriers wrote about training a recall on the
clicktrain list. She had used a long line and
proofed for distractions per Koehler; yet the dog
knew when he was on a line and when not, and
would ignore her when there were squirrels to chase.
She had used an e-collar under the direction of a
professional, who said he had never met a dog who
could tell whether he was wearing the real thing or
the dummy collar, as her dog seemed able to.
Heck, they're terriers. Chasing squirrels or other
irresistable prey, they'll scramble through t*****
bushes, tumble down rocky hills, and the prey could
always bite back (though I'm thinking more of badger
dogs -- the Cairn Terrier, the West Highland White
Terrier, and the hunting Dachshund -- badgers are
reputed to be pretty tough critters). And none of
that diminishes the fun. What's a few scratches and
lumps and bruises? And what are corrections
from a long line or an e-collar in the face of such
delightful temptation?
What did work for her, at last, was chasing
squirrels with the dog. I believe she used a harness
with a long line and a snapback, not to correct the
dog, but to ensure that during training he simply
wasn't able to enjoyably chase squirrels without
her cooperation.
Each time he focused on her rather than a
nearby squirrel, the reward was that they
chased the squirrel together.
The fact that his best friend and fellow squirrel
chaser was a bit clumsly and let the squirrels
get away didn't bother him... apparently the
chase was the best part.
Once he got the picture (not long at all) the dog took
to running over and stepping on her foot when there
was chasable prey about... which pretty much took
care of the squirrel chasing problem, as she was
then able to pick him up and/or reward him with a
joint chase when appropriate and not too
embarassing.
A good while after this training success, she found
that he would run and touch her foot to alert her to
prey *she* hadn't seen yet. Which gave her time to
pick him up the time he saw the chicken first...
There are limits, obviously. You can't chase deer
with your dog; ain't proper and the game warden's
not gonna be happy with it.
However, I think there's a lesson here for all trainers,
about the dog knowing what's reinforcing and what's
not (treats ranking lower than squirrels for this dog)
and about modifying "drives," setting rules and limits
rather than trying to "put a stop to it" entirely.
So the retriever gets to chase and retrieve birds,
the scent hound gets to use his nose, the terrier
gets to chase the prey, the greyhound gets to lure
course (or, squeamish though I personally might be
about it, open-field course)... on the handler's
terms.
-----------------------------------------
> Not!
Naaaaah??
> She got ahold of a second one.
Naaaah?
Oh, hey, SteveB??
HERE'S HOWE COME:
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov
Pavlov Told Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson,
Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH
Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The
Scientific Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
> Don't know if there will be a third time.
BET YOUR DOG'S LIFE ON IT <{}: ~ ( >
> My corgi cornered one in the yard the other night.
Naaaah?
> He charges in, and stops short when the invading animal doesn't flee.
On accHOWENTA it didn't trigger his PRAY DRIVE <{}: ~ ( >
> At least he has some degree of sense and danger,
Naaaaa. If the skunk took evasive action he'd CHASE
and PROBABLY MURDER it. An then *you'd*
COMPLAIN that you gotta bathe your dog an NUTHIN
takes the stink HOWET <{}: ~ ( >
Oh, bye the bye, SteveB, there's a EXXXCELLENT remedy
for skunk odor on my website. Look on the "Guest" page for it.
> and won't go over the line and within range.
UNLESS the critter RUNS.
> We smelled the musk, but he had none on him. He has
> not had any previous "unhappy" experiences with skunks
> that may have taught him they're not worth the trouble.
Have you EVER seen a dog "learn his lesson" by gettin sprayed?
> Or, maybe he saw what happened to the
> Lab and learned from her experience.
That's kind of a S-T-R-E-T-C-H, despite that critters
DO LEARN BEAST through OBSERVATION <{}: ~ ) >
> Steve
Perhaps WON fine day humans will evolve to such a level
whereby *they* can LEARN through other's mistakes? Better
yet, perhaps they'll LEARN NOT TO MAKE the mistakes
they been taught by their abusive, doting parents?
ANY temperament or behavior problem that's IGNORED,
AVOIDED, or REPRESSED will only CHANGE to other
temperament and behavior problems as replacement or
TRAINsfer behavior anxiHOWESNESS relief mechanisms.
Abuse / Fear / Aggression / Hyperactivity / Shyness /
Depression / Suicide Attempts AIN'T Genetic Problems,
They're SPIRITUAL PROBLEMS,
Passed On From WON GeneratiHOWEN Of Abuser
To The Next,
Like The 100th Monkey Wa****n Fruit In The Stream.
After A While It's Not Just NORMAL, It's
-OBLIGATORY-
To Do OtherWIZE Would Be
DISRESPECTFUL
Of Your Parental Teachins.
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear, Hate, Reflex,
Self Will, Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment, Guilt,
Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness, Aversion, Attraction,
Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion, Change, Permanence,
Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition And Parental / ReligiHOWES /
Societal CONDITIONING;
*YOU ARE*
THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.
It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.
There Are NO GRAY AREAS
Between
RIGHT And WRONG.
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.
If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.
The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.
He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then?
The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >
ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
SEE?
In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY, you may
substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars for shock
and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING, CRATING, an offerin
an witholdin rewards, attention, and affection:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative reinforcement"
(1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY model involves
the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse, Skinner has never to my
knowledge, demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced as a
punishment and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov:
"Motivation Of The Resistance To Coercion "-- PAVLOV
"Reflexes of purpose and freedom" in the comparative
physiology of higher nervous activity, Institute of
Higher Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology, Academy
of Sciences, Moscow:
The most complex unconditioned "reflexes of aim and
freedom," discovered by I.P. Pavlov, are compared
with the "competence drive" and the "motivation of the
resistance to coercion," respectively, described by
contem****ary ethologists.
On the basis of the unconditioned "reflex of purpose,"
conditioned reflexes were developed in which positive
emotions arising in connection with the perfection of
a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic significance at
a given moment, serve as the reinforcement.
The unconditioned "reflex of freedom" is regarded as a
phylogenetic precursor of the will, and its acute extinction
as the physiological mechanism of hypnosis. It was
demonstrated experimentally that the appearance of the
state of "animal hypnosis" (immobilization catatonia) in
rabbits is accompanied by the predominance of electrical
activity and heat production in the right hemisphere, i.e.,
by symptoms which are found in hypnosis in man.
Simonov PV</h4>
Publication Types:<ul><li>Review</li><li>Review,
tutorial</li></ul>PMID: 2215892, UI: 91015681</blockquote>
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
<transitional//en">
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=2215892&am
p;form=6&amp;db=m&amp;Dopt=bNeurosciBehavPhysiol1990May-Jun;20(3):230-5
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.
"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) re****t a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are re****ted to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated.
Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists."
Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of
programmed systems for learning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST
SURELY DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers."
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).
Some clinics have re****ted ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental
HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents tem****arily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!
The Embry Study:
"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.
Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason
with their children about da****ng into the street will
likely to have the opposite impact.
Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward it."
Source:
"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Re****t
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."
B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:
If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.
People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.
The need for punishment seems to have the sup****t
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.
Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.
----------------------------
Psychological Effects
At issue is the question, --Do electronic training
devices elicit psychological responses?
"This section cites several research studies in which the
psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices
was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine
the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods
until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in
a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on
what it is, but it varies from dog to dog.
It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect
of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired
need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild.
Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long
term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004).
Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334).
The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral changes in
dogs during training using electronic training collars. Thirty-two
dogs were divided into two groups, each receiving both general
obedience and protection training.
One group was trained with shock collars and the other group
without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars
displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched
yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and
tongue flicking.
It was also noted by the authors that, even during play and relaxed
walking, the group of dogs trained with shock collars continued to
show signs of stress while in the company of their handler.
The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful;
receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock
group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner
(or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even
outside of the normal training context.
They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at
stake, at least in the presence of their owners.
This study has come under considerable fire because the experience
of the handlers and dogs is not clear, and the level of shock is not
stated. With that said, it does suggest that dogs are stressed by the
experience of being shocked during training.
---------------------
Freeze Frame <{}: ~ ) >
From: canis55 <cani...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 1999/09/28
Subject: Dear Marilyn Re. Ness
Dear Marilyn,
I just visited your updated site. The two Ness pages are great.
Freezing the video frames to reveal the emotional impact a
leash correction has on a dog was a wonderful idea.
Lee Kelley did something similar to a Brian Kilcommon video.
The difference is we were focusing on the emotional impact a
leash correction has on the trainer. When you do this to a training
video you can clearly see the tremendous emotional charge some
of these trainers are getting from hurting dogs.
It's a strange business, this dog training. I wonder what motivates
any of us to engage in it. I'm suspicious of anyone who says they
do it because they love dogs. I know a lot of people who claim to
love what dogs represent to them, and yet they don't become trainers.
I don't think this is because they love something else more.
I think there is a difference between loving what dogs represent
to us and loving what training them creates in us or even creates
in them for that matter.
It's a complicated process and perhaps many of us have lost sight
of what we're doing. I read books and articles that matter of factly
explain how to systematically inflict pain on dogs in an effort to
create a desire to perform tasks that I often see dogs performing of
their own accord. I know many of these behaviors can be shaped
and encouraged to the same degree of reliability without all the
violence and pain.
Where they can't (if that's the case), I wonder why we think
a dog should perform a task that is so repugnant to its nature,
that we must resort to violence and coercion to compel them
to participate.
Maybe I have far too much respect for dogs, but when I read
this stuff it sounds like slavery and involuntary servitude to me.
I can't see much difference between what we're doing to them
(for their own good) and what my country men did to the African
peoples for nearly half a century.
It's hard for me to accept that I'm surrounded by so much
madness, but I have to go with my heart on this one. Most
of what we demand from dogs--if not all of it--will be offered
willingly and enthusiastically if we only learn how to request
it in a manner they can comprehend.
If it turns out that I have to attack a dog to get it to do or to not do
something, then maybe the dog isn't supposed to do what I think it
should.
The whole thing's so complicated that I can't really express it. I
just know I don't like some of the stuff I'm seeing or reading about.
--
I trains'em as I sees'em.
----------------
Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into
ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes
contemplation" dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic
Behavior at UofWI, pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer)
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
mattburns...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED CASE}
HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Marshall Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>tami sutherland <suthe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
>
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holding her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.
In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.
That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.
Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.
If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well do***ented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
--------------------
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Sup****t Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and sup****t your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establi****ng a nonprofit
charity to fund your im****tant work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
------------------
"The day may come when the rest of
the animal creation
may acquire those right
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
"A Cheerful Heart Is Good Medicine, But
A Crushed Spirit Dries Up The Bones,"
Proverbs 17:22
Disciple Paulie Sez:
"No One Understands How Wits End Training
Really Works; They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation
Is Built On Trust And Understanding.
I've never forced my dogs to do anything,
I tell them they are good dogs and they
seem to follow me, onceI told them they
were bad dogs and they ran away from me,
now I only ever tell them they are good dogs
and they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say
"good dog" sincerely at the end of the request and
I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding
everytime.
A Bit Of Respect Works Wonders,
The Same Rule Applies
To Every Aspect Of
The Relation****p With Your Dog.
Obedience And Affection Are Not Related,
if They Were Everyone Would Have
Obedient Dogs.
I Have Found Giving Dogs "Payment" In Advance i.e.
"Sam sit goodboy" Makes The Dogs WANT TO RESPOND,
After All, All Dogs Want To Be "Good Dogs" And If
You Tell Them They Are Good Then They Feel An
Obligation To Obey Your Request.
Telling Sam He's A Good Dog AFTER He Sit's
Apart From Being Too Late Is Also A Gamble
Because If He Doesn't Sit Then There's No
Positive Interaction.
Paul
-------------------------
ANY QUESTIONS, People?
"Ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you mad." -
~Aldous Huxley.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way
its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas
Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from his FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) >
Force training JERRYIZES dogs...
and GETS THEM DEAD," -
- ThePuppyWizard <{}:* ~ ( >
All truth p***** through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.
INDEEDY.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours
The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C*
*G-R-A-N-D*
*M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
E-mail:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
AT&T Or AIM Messenger @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
