HOWEDY paul e. schoen,
"Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:48c62c2c$0$31906$ecde5a14@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "SteveB" <toquerville@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:02hbp5-ip01.ln1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> I've broken many a dog from jumping up on me. The owner asks me, "How
>> come he doesn't jump on you and he jumps on everyone else?"
EveryWON has gotta IMPRESS the puppy the same same,
otherWIZE the "METHOD" WON'T WORK <{}: ~ ( >
>> I dont' tell him that when the dog jumped, I did the appropriate thing
SteveB means he HURT the dog <{}: ~ ( >
>> and taught the dog myself, several with just one jump.
LIKE THIS:
Here's a other pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use a little
"knee action," that is, as the dog goes charging by
you, just give the dog a little bop with your knee
and ****n.
Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about ru****ng past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and ****ge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
-----------------------
BINACA beth's "trainer" BROKE HER OWN DOG'S RIBS doin that.
>> I just say, "I guess he doesn't like me." Funny, at the time, I'm
>> usually bent over petting the tail wagging dog.
OtherWIZE IT'D jump on him again <{}: ~ ) >
> I'm not sure exactly what you mean,
LikeWIZE <{}: ~ ) >
THAT'S HOWE COME The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy,
Child, *****, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard was PREYIN SteveB would TALK
BUSINESS <{}: ~ ) >
> but I think you are saying that you can break the dog of this behavior
by
> just ignoring it,
That's ABSURD. ANY behavior that's IGNORED,
REPRESSED or AVOIDED will only GET WORSE
or CHANGE to other, often worse, seemingly non
related behaviors as anXXXIHOWESNESS relief
mechanisms or TRAINsfer behaviors <{}: ~ ( >
> and rewarding a less physical sort of greeting.
That's ABSURD:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
Author and professional dog trainer LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
Thanks, Jerry, that's a helpful bit from the guy
who started it all. This shows what we've been
saying: that teaching the dog to play fetch,
regardless of its usefulness in the eventual
search part of the training program, is a
powerful motivator and reinforcer.
Of course these idiots (pardon my being blunt)
don't see using food and clickers as being a
form of coercion. Maybe they've been hypnotized
by Karen Pryor, et al:
Freeze Frame <{}: ~ ) >
From: canis55 <cani...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 1999/09/28
Subject: Dear Marilyn Re. Ness
Dear Marilyn,
I just visited your updated site. The two Ness pages are great.
Freezing the video frames to reveal the emotional impact a
leash correction has on a dog was a wonderful idea.
Lee Kelley did something similar to a Brian Kilcommon video.
The difference is we were focusing on the emotional impact a
leash correction has on the trainer. When you do this to a training
video you can clearly see the tremendous emotional charge some
of these trainers are getting from hurting dogs.
It's a strange business, this dog training. I wonder what motivates
any of us to engage in it. I'm suspicious of anyone who says they
do it because they love dogs. I know a lot of people who claim to
love what dogs represent to them, and yet they don't become trainers.
I don't think this is because they love something else more.
I think there is a difference between loving what dogs represent
to us and loving what training them creates in us or even creates
in them for that matter.
It's a complicated process and perhaps many of us have lost sight
of what we're doing. I read books and articles that matter of factly
explain how to systematically inflict pain on dogs in an effort to
create a desire to perform tasks that I often see dogs performing of
their own accord. I know many of these behaviors can be shaped
and encouraged to the same degree of reliability without all the
violence and pain.
Where they can't (if that's the case), I wonder why we think
a dog should perform a task that is so repugnant to its nature,
that we must resort to violence and coercion to compel them
to participate.
Maybe I have far too much respect for dogs, but when I read
this stuff it sounds like slavery and involuntary servitude to me.
I can't see much difference between what we're doing to them
(for their own good) and what my country men did to the African
peoples for nearly half a century.
It's hard for me to accept that I'm surrounded by so much
madness, but I have to go with my heart on this one. Most
of what we demand from dogs--if not all of it--will be offered
willingly and enthusiastically if we only learn how to request
it in a manner they can comprehend.
If it turns out that I have to attack a dog to get it to do or to not do
something, then maybe the dog isn't supposed to do what I think it
should.
The whole thing's so complicated that I can't really express it. I
just know I don't like some of the stuff I'm seeing or reading about.
--
I trains'em as I sees'em.
----------------
> I read parts of your blog at http://cateaters.blogspot.com:80/,
That was jay.cmpbll's blog, not SteveB's. But there's all
the same same, same effective scientific methods:
tommy wrote:
From: dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Dogman) Date: 1997/11/11
Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding *****sment
This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole, distortion,
lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely out of context,
instead.
What lying hypocrites these hand-wringers are!
The most consistent argument among Koehler's defenders is based
on a questionable assumption that such "drastic" measures are
effective in "extreme" cases where other methods fail.
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Here again is pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
=====================
"Swatting a dog on the nose is
always the wrong thing to do."
From: Rocky <3da...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 16 Aug 2002 18:40:54 GMT
Subject: Re: training a dog...
nancyj wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> The pressure meant a GOOD possibility if she could
> just push up hard enough, I'd understand. I did
> eventually <G>. I switched to a light tap!
Yup, once a dog learns to sit, a light tap
works as a reminder when they "forget".
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
But "NEVER HIT your dog", eh, matty?
From: qbt...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Dogman)
Date: 1997/01/24
Subject: Re: Over-Excited Lab
On a cold day in Hell, Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:53:10
Teaching a puppy to stop biting and nipping people is
probably the very easiest thing you will ever do as a dog
trainer. Don't make such a big deal out of it.
It's E-A-S-Y, but it won't be done in just one or
two lessons. You must be C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T.
And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.
Whenever your puppy bites or nips you (or anyone else
in your family), do any one of the following:
1.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your index
finger.
2.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly grasp your puppy's lower jaw with your
right hand (if you are right handed), your right thumb stuck
down and under her tongue, your other fingers wrapped
under her jaw, and gently but firmly shake her jaw back
and forth a couple of times.
3.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently place a couple of fingers into her mouth, trying to
touch the back of her tongue with them, initiating a gag
reflex.
Immediately after doing any one of the above,
stop playing with her for at least 15-20 minutes
and completely IGNORE her. Do not even make
eye contact!
I promise you, Phil, that if you will be consistent in
the application of the above, your puppy will soon stop
nipping and biting people. Just how soon this occurs
depends upon the puppy, how well you execute the
above, and how C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T you are.
And no one should be allowed to play with the puppy
who is not capable of doing any of the above. Not
until she has first learned not to nip and bite people.
"At the very FIRST nip, tap your puppy on his nose with
your index finger, sharply, but not very hard, your face in
his face, and say "NO BITE!" in a firm but not loud voice."
"With your index finger, tap the puppy on her nose firmly,
but not harshly, then, at the very same time, and nose to
nose with her, tell your puppy in a firm but not loud voice,
"NO BITE!"
"At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your
index finger."
BUT NEVER HIT YOUR DOG~!
Swatting a dog on the nose is always
the wrong thing to do.
IMO, the *fastest* way to curb a mouthy puppy's
desire to bite hands (especially if other methods
have failed, because you don't want this habit to
become reinforced by too much success), etc., is
to take advantage of the pup's gag reflex:
Slowly reach over and around the pup's shoulder
(while you're sitting on the floor), coming up to
the pup's mouth from underneath it with your
right hand (that way he can't see your finger or
your hand), and stick your index finger into the
pup's mouth, at the very rear, then down the
pup's throat, and gently place some downward
pressure on the back of the tongue, until he starts
to gag. Use your left arm to hold him close to you,
while you're doing this.
Trust me, it's easier to demonstrate this technique
than to explain it, but it's fail-proof.
He'll quickly put 2 and 2 together. Biting hands = gag.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
-------------------
SEE?
HOWE COME would a EXXXPERT such as tommy set their
INFORMATIVE posts to EXXXPIRE in six days like matty
a.k.a. Rocky, diddler, elegy, meat terri a.k.a. dogsnuts, professora
melanie chang, marquis de "READ KOEHLER FOR CONTENT"
shaw and not so handsome not so gentle jackass, not even jack
morrison a.k.a. joe finnochiarrio a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a.
DOGMAN??
Ooops~! That last anonymHOWES coward is tommy.
Is tommy EMBARRASSED by his own words, the lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental case fraud an SCAM ARTIST?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine.
What an idiotic response!
Whoops.
-------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> and some of what you have to say is interesting.
Yeah. It's unfortunate that dog an kat lovers LOVE to
"REWARD" desirable normal natural innate instinctive
reflexive behaviors and PUNISH undesirable normal
natural innate instinctive reflexive behaviors when they
don't know HOWE to FORCE CON-TROLL of them
when their imbecilic REWARDS FAIL.
> I've had quite an adventure with my dog Muttley,
Oh, INDEEDY~!
> rescuing him from euthanasia on three occasions,
Of curse, TWO of them three occasions was paulie's idea:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
-------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> and learning a lot about the strong bond that
> can form between man and "beast".
YEAH:
Re: New to us Pup, Tomorrow!
"cshenk" <cshe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> "montana wildhack" wrote
>> You may want to move the crate into your bedroom.
>> Being "near" and "next to" are very different things.
> Actually I would if I could, but there isnt room.
Make room, even if the dresser or a side table has to go
away for a while. This is an im****tant bonding time.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> I see that your blog is titled "cateaters", and I'm fairly sure
> that Muttley might have at least tried to eat my cat if he ever caught
> her,
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME your DEAD KAT Photon GOT DEAD.
> although I was making some progress in socializing them
No, paulie. You was jerkin an chokin Muttley to make them PALS.
LIKE THIS:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
Hello everyone:
If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.
I will add a bit more history later in this post.
Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.
The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.
I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pu****ng his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.
Muttley took the op****tunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.
That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.
When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.
She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.
She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.
"They can't all be saved".
<snip>
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> until she sadly was hit by a car and killed on the road in front of my
> house a couple years ago.
Your DEAD KAT Photon wouldn'ta been in the road
had you an janet been able to TRAIN your RESCUE
dog Muttley to be PALS:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience cl***** at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
> Instead of a blog, I put a story of the saga of me and Muttley on my
> website: www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley/MuttleyStory.htm. You can also
see
> many pictures of him in the Muttley directory.
IS THIS your DEAD KAT Photon?:
http://tinyurl.com/2qr9ry
Did paulie's DEAD KAT run HOWET on
paulie an his RESCUE dog Muttley??
Hey! I think I FHOWEND him on the side of the
road JUST LIKE in the picture, but withHOWET
the sign.
Is he black an red?
If you don't want him back maybe I can keep him?
I think he's still good. He's up the road a piece from
here an there's a little on the other side of the road
there an some in the middle not far from me here.
You want him back to make sure he gets a good HOWES?
He still looks pretty good. A tad lonely maybe. Just like
in the pic, EXXXCEPT MOORE of him in MOORE pics.
Same profile, HOWEver.
BWEEEAAAAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!
> He is still quite a handful,
Naaaaah?
> and sometimes hard to control,
Despite ALL your OBEDIENCE TRAININ, paulie??
> but he is a sweet fellow and I have been able to train him
> enough to have decent manners with people and other dogs. He used to
jump
> up on me and other people, but he has calmed
> down considerably. Yet he will still jump up on my friend who originally
> rescued him. I think this is because she encourages it and makes him
> excited.
No, paulie. Muttley GETS "EXXXCITED" on accHOWENTA
your "RESCUE" pal hellen jerks an chokes an intimidates him.
> But eventually he settles down and will sit or lie down nicely while I
> enjoy a meal or do whatever else I may want to do. Sometimes he begs for
a
> few morsels, or scratches my leg with a paw to let me know he needs to
go
> out or to alert me of something, but he has become
> a wondeful pet and loyal companion.
Oh, INDEEDY~! So long as you keep him tied up.
> Don't let the PW (JH) get you riled up.
Of curse not~!
SteveB won't respond to HIM on accHOWENTA he's
so busy playin GRABASS with your animal murderin
MENTAL CASES <{}: ~ ( >
> He will not acknowledge any other method
> of training other than his own "methods",
On accHOWENTA they DON'T WORK.
> and they did not seem to work as expected on my dog,
That's a LIE, paulie. The methods WORKED AS STATED
HOWEver, YOU DIDN'T LIKE you RESCUE dog Muttley
NOT BEIN AFRAID OF YOU <{}: ~ ( >
AND you NEVER finished even the 1st EXXXORCISE.
> so now he accuses me of yanking and choking my
> dog on a prong collar to force him into obedience,
YOU MEAN JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE, paulie?:
Re: Rejected for obedience training (even evaluation)
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message news:
468f2c62$0$21031$ecde5...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message
news:1183778458.405615.146000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> HOWEDY paule e. schoen,
> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:468dc6d8$0$11048$ecde5a14@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Now that my evaluation of Jerry's methods are complete
> You NEVER COMPLETED the first EXXXORCISE
It was unsuccessful when Muttley simply ignored
the constant praise and became confused. Maybe
that method works on high strung, needy dogs that
need to be calmed down.
> Yeah. HOWE COME you won't TRY using the NON
> VIOLENT methods I teach FOR FREE, paulie?
Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
when you use verbal violence against other dog
owners, thus triggering their own opposition
reflexes. I will try other non-violent methods
that communicate what is expected of the dog.
And I don't believe that proper use of a prong
collar or choker chain are evil and physically
hurtful.
[snip verbal abuse]
So you think it is effective to withold praise,
but offer it as a bribe to get people to follow
your methods? Or promise you will stop beating
them if they obey your commands? Yet never do
it for a dog?
Paul and Muttley (almost fully recovered from
Arbitrary Praise Neurosis)
-------------------------
From:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:24:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Rejected for obedience training (even evaluation)
HOWEDY paul e. schoen,
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message news:
468f2c62$0$21031$ecde5...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote in message
> news:1183778458.405615.146000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> HOWEDY paule e. schoen,
>> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
>> in message news:468dc6d8$0$11048$ecde5a14@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Now that my evaluation of Jerry's methods are
>>> complete
>> You NEVER COMPLETED the first EXXXORCISE
IN FACT, you NEVER STUDIED The Manual AS INSTRUCTED.
You see paulie, I was EXXXPECTING folks like you to come in
here BULL****IN me and therefore The Manual was written
in such a way as to be able to DIAGNOSE the BULL****ERS
from the STUDENTS who simply have difficulty with their dogs.
You're a BULL****ER and a DOG ABUSER and a COWARD.
> It was unsuccessful when Muttley simply
> ignored the constant praise and became confused.
You mean, when Muttley became UN AFRAID
of you jerking choking and intimidating him and
was waiting for you to resort to jerking and chokin
him again like HOWE you had PREFERRED to
do pryor to TRY bein KIND to your dog?:
From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leader****p Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
Hi Jerry,
When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.
It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work.
He was very confused at first, wondering
what he had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.
Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.
Thanks,
N
> Maybe that method works on high strung,
> needy dogs that need to be calmed down.
The Method WORKS on ALL critters, even
wolves, children and ladies even better than
cookies and ****ny objects <{}: ~ ) >
>> Yeah. HOWE COME you won't TRY using the NON
>> VIOLENT methods I teach FOR FREE, paulie?
> Your non-violent methods for dogs ring hollow
> when you use verbal violence against other dog
> owners,
"Other dog owners", paulie? But not YOU.
You're gonna QUIT TRAINING Muttley withHOWET
HURTIN HIM on accHOWENTA I'm CRUEL to "other
dog owners" who JERK CHOKE SHOCK CRIPPLE and
MURDER their dogs?
> thus triggering their own opposition reflexes.
Seems you dislike "OTHER DOG OWNERS" being
verbally assaulted even more than Muttley dislikes
being jerked and choked, eh?
Would you be kindly enough to CITE where I was
CRUEL to you when you "STOPPED HURTIN your
dog", paulie??
> I will try other non-violent methods
There AIN'T NO "other non-violent methods"
unless you mean BRIBERY / clicker idiocy:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon that
an expected reward not received is experienced as a
punishment and can produce extensive and persistent
aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."
> that communicate what is expected of the dog.
<SNIP>
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
> Paul and Muttley
Hey paulie? THAT'S HOWE COME your own DEAD
KATS Photon an Meshon GOT DEAD on you.
REMEMBER?
> while in reality he just likes to pull when he wants to move faster than
I
> do.
Dogs PULL on accHOWENTA DOG ABUSERS CHOKE THEM.
LIKE THIS:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
Here's paulie's CUSTOME MADE pronged spiked pinch choke collar:
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt
"J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?
janet CONtinues:
> > My dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
> > I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
> > should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
> > your dog(s).
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
-------------------
LIKE THIS:
Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paul:
#2 - 6/05/07
>> When I was training him under Janet's supervision I
>> was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
> I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm yanks
> on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
>> She was able to get his attention with just a quick tug, but I
>> had to yank on it hard enough to lift him off his feet to get him
>> to respond.
>
>> Looking back now, I think it was based on his fear, which he
>> had for her (as an unknown), but not for me (whom he had
>> learned to trust).
> He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a confident trainer.
> Fear has no place in dog training, as I told you THEN.
> Janet.
It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.
Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.
Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.
Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.
Paul and Muttley
"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step on the leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.
I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.
I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.
Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
-----------------------
THAT'S quite a SUCCESS STORY, ain't it <{}: ~ ( >
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07
"Janet Boss" <ja...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:janet-730AB8.17321511042007@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.
What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.
I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have enough
obedience to avoid it.
While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.
We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
SEE?
> Good luck with the storms down there in FL.
Yeah. We'll all keep HOWER fingers crossed, eh, paulie?
HOWE COME a good Xian like you don't offer us a PREYER??
> Do you have any photos of your Dal/Lab mix?
That's jay.cmpbll's blog, paulie <{}: ~ ( >
> Paul and Muttley
------------------
From: "GEORGE VONHILSHEINER" <DRV...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Proposed article for Wikipedia
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:48:33 -0500
The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the cognomen of a dog behaviorist,
Jerry Howe, of Orlando, Fl. Howe's primary teaching is that
dogs deserve unconditional love, respect, and attention and
that by providing these emotional needs dogs will regulate
their own behavior.
Howe is bombastically antagonistic to rewarders, but he is
aggressively hostile to punishers - he refers antagonists
to B.F. Skinner, Mary Cover Jones, and J.B. Watson and
especially to Samuel A. Corson when they mistakenly annunciate
behavioral principles to sup****t their use of punishment.
Punishment always deranges behavior, says Skinner,
Jones, Watson, Corson and Jerry Howe!
Howe developed a sonic device which calms dogs and has
been broadly tested in a wide range of different situations.
The present author is a Who's Who recognized psychologist
who was asked to evaluate Howe's device by a former student.
Howe provided the author with a device, without
charge, and said device worked as re****ted.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
drv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cross reference to Jerry Howe, etc.
--------------
Jerry, the difficulty with these ignorant dog molesters
is that they cannot read. Negative reinforcement is no
response by the trainer.
There is positive reinforcement, an action which is followed
by an increase in the targetted behavior (usually called
"reward" which is precisely and technically a misnomer),
negative reinforcement is the absence of any response.
Negative means 'No'.
Skinner's last book, "***ULATIVE RECORD" reviews this
thoroughly. http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html
Negative reinforcement is stopping an aversive reinforcement
according to this author. Read it, they have a sense of humor!
There are four forms of systematic reinforcement:
do nothing (negative reinforcement)
reward the behavior (positive reinforcement)
punish the behavior (aversive reinforcement) after habituating
the subject to punishment,
stop puni****ng (relief of aversion, which is negative reinforcement).
Logically, failing to reward after habituating a reward
is also negative reinforcement. Actually intermittent
rewards work better than consistent, invariable rewards,
so there is actually another two categories. Invariable
reinforcement and random reinforcement (on varying schedules).
Punishment is AVERSIVE REINFORCEMENT.
Actions which cause the animal being trained to avoid,
avert, cringe away from. Pavlovians always responded
to American psychologist's inability to reproduce Pavlov's
results with dogs with the comment, "American's don't LOVE
their dogs". If you ever observed a Russian psychologist
working with a dog, you'd instantly see the difference.
American psychologists were wooden, robot-like,
wanted to be "scientific".
This meant to them that they should display no
affection, or any other emotion with the subjects.
When a Pavlovian dog started to misbehave or fail to respond,
doggie was taken out of the equipment, and taken home for a
loving vacation, with much TLC. Sam Corson, Pavlov's last
student, demonstrated the same relation****ps at Ohio State.
Interestingly the first page of results for Sam Corson,
dog behaviorist is loaded with Jerry Howe quoting Dr. Von.
heh heh heh
Dr. Von
Oh, by the way, you once had a pompous fellow say that
Dr. Von was a figment of your imagination. I don't
normally mention this, but I have been listed in Who's
Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big books,
Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in Medicine
etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date.
These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and
you can't get yourself into them.
GvH
============
Here's a couple of tommy sorenson's aka not so handsome,
not so gentle, jackass, not even morrison a.k.a. DOGMAN,
the anonymHOWES COWARD's SUCCESSFUL "STUDENTS":
"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.
From: Laura Arlov (l...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !
Date: 1999/01/20
Quote laura:
Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.
Laura in Oslo
You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?
Quote laura:
The listener,
You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE
your dog or you'd make IT aggressive.
Quote laura:
the observer.
NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.
Quote laura:
We do work were you sometimes have to observe people
Like laura, MURDERING her dog...
Quote laura:
and take notes.
INDEEDY!
Quote laura:
B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.
RIGHT...
Quote laura:
Laura and Angel in Oslo
steve walker's DEAD DOG Sampson was a shelter / rescue
Golden. He begain TURNING on his daughter so he PUNISHED
IT. That seemed to have CURED Sampson's FEAR of steve's
daughter but TAUGHT IT to attack OTHER daddy's daughters,
and GOT HIM DEAD, despite all the EXXXPERTEASE of HOWER
fellHOWE dog lovers here and the BIG SHOT, john rogerson,
in the UK <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the s***my likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of **** you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood
enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
============
SEE?
tommy sez:
> Sucker.
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAA~!~!~!
AND LIKE THIS:
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:54:57 +0100
Subject: Sad news (Samson)
Hello everyone, hope you remember me. I've been quiet
here for ages, firstly because of a computer breakdown
that took ages to remedy, and then it's been difficult
to find the heart to write to the group again.
You see, on Sep 21, after much heart-searching, I took
Samson back to the RSPCA to be put to sleep. He was a
brilliant dog with his family, but was becoming more &
more fear reactive with people, especially small children,
and (apparently randomly) with other dogs, to the point
where we had to muzzle him when he went out and if we
had visitors (which is often), because we just couldn't
trust people to remember to leave him alone, so his
quality of life had become not much.
We put him through a rehab programme from John Rogerson's
practice - I gather he's pretty well-known, so some of
you might have heard of him - which did everything they
said it would (reliable recall, focused his attention much
more on us, etc - except reduce his tendency to react
suddenly and bite.
The vet had checked him and found nothing, but I'd still
have suspected a brain tumour or something if it hadn't
been for the fact that he was totally reliable with the kids
and us.
I called the RSPCA to let them know that the rehab programme
wasn't working, and they said that if we gave him back, they'd
*****s him but he'd almost certainly be put down.
I couldn't let him be alone among strangers for his last
moments, so I asked if they'd let me take him immediately
and stay with him while it was done, and they agreed.
It was a sunny day, and he was happy enough on the drive to
the centre, but I could barely hold myself together. He was
nervous of going into the surgery and I had to coax him in,
and I felt like an utter traitor.
I stroked him as they prepared him, crying and telling him
how sorry I was, and nearly panicked and ran out with him
when they brought out the needle.
But I knew if I did it would only be delaying the inevitable,
and I'd be risking someone, probably a child, being injured,
which I couldn't do. So I went through with it, and in a few
seconds it was over and I'd killed my dog, who trusted me
to look after him.
I told a mailing list I'm on straight away, and they've been
fantastically kind. I was in a daze for days afterwards, and
still have the occasional flashback to that day, but I'm coping
a lot better now, and would love to give a home to another dog,
but my wife doesn't feel ready yet.
Soon, though, I hope. I miss Samson terribly, but while I
feel a lot of guilt for the decision I made, I know there
wasn't another way out, and at least I could make sure I was
with him at the end.
I owed him that.
I know there are some here who will gloat over this email,
but all I can say is that their opinion, their existence,
is irrelevant to me. For the rest of you, the good, decent
majority who frequent this group, I didn't want to just
disappear, and not tell you what had happened, after you
gave me so much sup****t and help from the outset.
Samson was my first dog, and the help I got here made
life much better for him and us while we were together.
If the glad day comes when we do adopt another dog,
I'll let you know. I hope it's soon.
God bless,
--
Steve Walker
-------------
Seems steevie is in DEEP DENIAL~!
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 2000/10/09
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = I'm GLAD You Killed Samson,
He Was A BAD GENETIC Choice. You Did The Right Thing. Turn
And Don't Look Back.
In article FJ6E5.62103$O95.4439...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Howe <jh...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes
> Nor can I. Nor can Marilyn. She does the same kind of
> work I do. We KNEW this was going to happen, based on steve's original
> posts here...
Jerry, you're still in my killfile, but somehow this one
made it through, so I'll respond before I ignore you again.
You obviously have a very short memory. Samson was not
trained using aggressive, confrontational or harsh methods.
John Rogerson's rehab programme was based entirely on using
kind methods to get Samson's attention even more fixed on us
(which wouldn't have worked if they were not kind), with the
intention that Samson wouldn't even be interested in other
dogs and people, until we had such good control that we
could start to introduce others under controlled cir***stances
that would persuade Samson it was great to have them around.
It worked, in so far as Samson became even more attached
to us, had a perfect recall etc. Unfortunately, this didn't
stop the fact that he might suddenly react aggressively to
even the proximity of a stranger or strange dog.
No aggressive methods were used in this programme. Not one.
But the problem was too deep-rooted, too instinctive, and
Samson just couldn't help himself.
He'd shake if a small child even entered the room, and if
they approached him he'd try to bite them. Not as a reaction
to aggression, but just because he had some deep-rooted fear
issue going back to before we ever had him.
We could not risk that he would injure someone, especially
a child, so we made the decision we did - not lightly, but
with tears.
You, however, are an idiot. Don't bother replying, because
even if one of your posts makes it past the killfile again,
you'll just be binned with the rest of the garbage.
Goodbye.
--
Steve Walker
-----------------
Naaaaah??
QUOTE FROM lyingdogDUMMY:
> "The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim,
> for buying into anything Howe ever has to say, about anything, and for
not
> listening to me when it comes
> to dogs."
Ever hear the expression "sit rolls down hill?"
> but was becoming more & more fear reactive
> with people, especially small children,
That's it in a nutshell. You taught him through your own
actions, HOWE to deal with other, less capable beings.
Dogs copy our actions and attitudes. They mirror us. They
emulate us. And when we respond to their natural, innate,
instinctive, reflexive behaviors, with punishment, the dog
loses confidence in our judgement and leader****p ability.
Seems I recall you mentioning the children were learning
to CORRECT Samson on lead, so THEY could enjoy walking with
him. Didn't you mention they were learning some alpha dominance
techniques as well?
Can't let that big lug pull down the children now, can we?
So you teach the children to violate the dog's trust with
a few good corrections. And YOU back up the children with
the HAMMERS OF HELL...
And it worked. Didn't it, just as I told you so.
Just as I told Robert Crim.
But you guys were too smart to be taken in by this con man.
You listened to our fear, force, and alpha dominance control
freaks, who learned ALL that they know about dog behavior from
the MADMAN, MONSTER, wm koehler.
So, it seems the only problem is that you didn't read
the back of the book. That's what our Gang Of Thugs fails
to mention, until it's too late.
That's the part that says when the dog is finally provoked
to act out on his trainer or other weaker family members,
that you've got to HANG the dog till his eyes roll back in
ITS head, ITS tongue turns thick and blue and falls out the
side of ITS mouth, and when you put IT back on the ground,
IT should stagger to IT'S feet, and PUKE.
That's the cure for this behavior problem, you just never asked.
I expect you'll enjoy your next dog as much as you enjoyed Samson.
Tell him HOWEDY for me, eh good buddy? Eh? Huh? Huh? Eh??? Eh???
Yours for responsible dog handling and training,
Jerry "Don't Confront The Dog," Howe.
From: Dogman <dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 2000/10/08
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = ninnyboy
"JohnK" <jo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> It's too late. I already know what a disgusting, vile
> human being you are. You are to be ignored now.
Come on, John.
It didn't really take that Sampson post for you to know
that Howe is a disgusting, vile human being, did it?
I hope not.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: Re: RIP Teena 1999 - 2004
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me10...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
message news:p8sn1093e89a5202rdr1an5b5pgd3gdrrf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 31 Jan 2004 17:48:39 GMT, KWBrown arfenarfSPAMBL...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
> Well.
> She tried to take a bite out of our trainer, and that was that.
> Teena the ESS made her last trip to the vet and, I hope,
> sleeps more peacefully than she has in years.
I'm very sorry to hear that, Kate.
But going by the information you posted here about her,
you had no choice.
Godspeed, Teena.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Hello Dogdirtforbirdbrains,
You ain't getting away with that any more. You are not going to get
away with blaming genetics for the behavior problems created
through abusive training methods recommended by thugs like you
and Koehler, that cause dogs to turn on their owners and families,
and die as a result!
People are getting smart around here, and fast! You becoming well
recognized for what you are. I don't need to elaborate on that
anymore. Everybody knows.
> What a piece of **** you are, Crim. Blaming me, or blaming
> Koehler, for poor Fritz's problem, is like blaming a doctor who
> couldn't save your child's life, and that's unconscionable.
You told Crim that Koehler was fantastic. He bought it hook, line,
and sinker, and it sank him. You must know the risk, just as I do.
I've seen this sort of thing happen repeatedly for over thirty years.
It will stop. I'm not going to allow you people to get away with it
anymore.
I will dog you, Koehler, and all of your kind right to the gates of
Hell, and I'll train Appallion to keep you there forever. Guaranteed.
The gates of Hell are guarded by a Wits' End trained dog.
> Your dog was almost certainly predestined by his *genes* to end
> up like he did, particularly since he had *you* as his thoroughly
> confused, ignorant and inconsistent doofus owner.
No, it was the Koehler method that killed Fritz. It was your advice
that killed Fritz. It was me, not being here sooner, that killed Fritz.
Crim was a victim, just like Fritz. Crim did everything by the book,
exactly as per the instructions. He followed your advice. He lost,
big time. I could have predicted the outcome, the percentage of this
kind of "collateral damage" is unacceptably high.
Those things, I am certain of. Those things, I am determined to stop.
> The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for buying into
> anything Howe ever has to say, about anything,
> and for not listening to me when it comes to dogs.
You are mad at me, because I forced Crim to examine exactly what
happened to Fritz, and he came to the correct conclusion. If I
hadn't, he'd be doing the same things he'd done before, but harder,
and faster, and maybe lost his next dog, faster and harder.
You now blame the genes, you now blame Crim for mishandling.
You said it was a good thing he destroyed his untrustworthy dog.
That is the kind of response you have given many people over the
years, isn't it? I know that for certain, I've been fighting you
Thugs all my life. It's almost over now, people are getting wise to
you, and Koehler, and Fraud Die, and the rest of the "in crowd" here.
Before, it was just me fighting for proper handling and training
methods. You've all ganged up on me, trying everything possible
to discredit and intimidate me. That didn't work. Not one of you
cretins have successfully discredited any of my methods. Keep trying,
please.
Now, there are several competent professional dog trainers, all with
somewhat different but nonetheless acceptable, non force, methods.
For the first time in my career, I've learned something from another
dog trainer. We've got a good thing going now, and you and our
Gang Of Thugs have to change, or go off into obscurity, in shame and
contempt.
You can't make up for the harm you've done, but you were an
innocent victim just like Crim, and you can be forgiven, and
rehabilitated, and you don't have to continue doing any more harm.
The choice is up to you. It's time to do or die.
> Dogman aka "Big Daddy"
> dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===================
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
|
