HOWEDY Running Wolf,
"elegy" <elegy@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:cv3m34puqsjq64ciic239cqrj0v9cmiig4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 26 May 2008 12:17:23 -0400, shore@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
>>In article
>><f2478d91-c0a5-4414-a42d-bc739cc11e4a@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>>Running Wolf <pavolc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>My dog on a lead rope was attacked by a dog that was not on a lead
>>>rope (and his owner was few meters away). How shoud I behave?
>>> To let my dog defend herself or to pull her back to me?
>>
>>I tend to go with option #3, which is to take responsibility
>>for stopping the charge, even if it means giving the
>>offensive dog a kick in the head. Get between them and
>>scare the dog off. And while an idiot owner might not give
>>a crap if his dog is attacking another dog I'd bet that
>>he'll start paying attention when a human gets involved.
>
> that's my choice as well. i've been able to stop a lot of fights
> before they start (and even if the charging dog's intentions aren't
> nefarious, if they run up rudely in my dogs' faces, there will be a
> fight) just by stepping into the dog's path and hollering.
>
> i have special considerations because i have dogs that i know will
> fight, but even if i didn't, i wouldn't be able to just stand by and
> let things happen. that's not fair. it's my job to keep them safe.
Here's elegy KEEPIN HER DOGS SAFE:
Here's Luce and here's elegy FRUSTRATING her dog who's GOIN
INSANE pullin against her pronged spiked pinch choke collar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzBtxevvcFs&mode=user&search=
Homer 1994 - 03.01.2007"
brothers and sisters i bid you beware
of giving your heart to a dog to tear
i put homer to sleep yesterday.
it was quite possibly the hardest thing i've ever done.
monday night i was trying to teach him to down using a
food lure. he wasn't getting it, so i put a hand on him to
try to encourage him to down. he attacked me, biting me
twice on the hand, and then when i stood up and backed
away, he came after me more and bit me on the leg as well.
i was shocked and devestated and a hundred other things.
i ended up emailing my trainer (who has turned out to be a
very kind friend) and she called me and i spent an hour on
the phone with her crying. she doesn't deal with aggression
cases, but she listened to me and talked me down. i hardly
slept that night.
tuesday i took homer in to work with me and had the vet
feel his neck. i didn't think it was a reaction due to pain
but i had to check it out. the vet put his hands on the sides
of homer's head and manipulated his head around. homer
didn't show any signs of pain or discomfort. he went
through the motions some more.
homer flipped out, with no warning, extremely violently. it
took him a long time (it felt like a lifetime. it was probably
around 3 minutes) to calm down enough that the vet could
take his hands off of homer without anybody getting hurt.
i went home for lunch and called a behaviorist. i spent a lot
of the day reading the brenda aloff aggression book and the
karen overall behavior book.
that night the behaviorist called me and i told her what had
happened and she asked questions and i answered them as
best i could.
she gave him a pretty poor prognosis.
everything that she said made sense to me, and nothing
she said was earth-shattering or even really anything
that i didn't already know.
this morning i took him in and held him close and cried into
his fur and told him how much i love him and let him go.
he was a dangerous dog. he bit unpredictably and with no
warning. he was a love, a snugglebug, a sweet sweet dog
as long as you didn't do anything he didn't want done. but
if you tried to "make" him do something he didn't want to
do, all bets were off. his reaction could be a snap or it could
be an over-the-top meltdown.
i couldn't live with a dog like that.
i *will not* live with a dog like that.
i've spent the last three days crying my eyes out. i never
imagined i could get that attached to a dog who i had for
all of 12 days and who bit me several times during those
12 days.
but i was. i loved him.
i loved him ferociously, but i had to let him go.
for his sake.
for my sake.
for the sake of luce and mushroom.
i feel horrible. heartbroken. guilty. angry.
and yet i don't regret him, not for one moment,
despite how things turned out.
Replies: 2 comments
i'm sorry, but human aggression is a deal-breaker, especially
unpredictable, unwarned human-aggression. there is too much
at stake and too much to lose.
Posted by e @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
03/26/2007 06:49 AM EST
You were just as unpredictable to Homer.
Shame on you for giving him only 12 days.
-----------------------
HOWE COME would elegy set her INFORMATIVE posts to
EXXXPIRE in six days? Is she EMBARRASSED by her own
words, the lyin animal murderin punk thug coward mental case
fraud an SCAM ARTIST, like montana, diddler, professora
melanie chang, cindy title moore of k9web.com, matty a.k.a.
Rocky and not so happy, not so handsome, not so gentle jackass,
not even jack morrison, a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a. DOGMAN
a.k.a. tommy sorenson of sorenson's Retriever PUPPY MILL and
SHOCK COLLAR SALES??
Are they EMBARRASSED by their own words, the lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental cases frauds an SCAM ARTISTS?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine. What an idiotic response! Whoops.
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAHAAHAAA!~!~!
And NHOWE, let's get on with the elegy murderin
her own DEAD RESCUE dogs SHOWE:
On Oct 26, 6:06 pm, elegy <el...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:27:15 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous
> <nob...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > Puppy is about 7 months old. I'm trying to teach him "come."
> > Sometimes he does it fine. Other times, he just sits there, looks
>> at me and ignores me. It is extremely frustrating.
That ain't hardly as frustrating as MURDERIN your own
last TWO DEAD "RESCUE" dogs on accHOWENTA you
ABUSED them, is it, elegy, you pathetic miserable stinkin
lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active accute
chronic life long incurable mental case.
> this is my favorite link for teaching a reliable recall
> <http://www.****rleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html>
Yeah? Your friend Mistress ****rley is a B&D/S&M SPECIALIST
who can't train the come command withHOWET her trusty SHOCK
COLLAR you pathetic lyin animal murderin ignorameHOWES:
Here's your PAL, MISTRESS ****rly chong,
crapHOWES CLICKER TRAINER:
"To be effective as a positive punisher, I set the level
of shock at a level high enough (in my best guesstimation)
to be unpleasant to the dog. I want the dog to startle a
bit and even yelp when they get shocked.
No, this is not pleasant.
After each shock, I call the dog again (because many
dogs tend to panic when something mysteriously reaches
out and stings them)."
But don't go away yet, my pretty flying monkey, there's MOORE:
"If the dog is still refusing the recall, then I escalate my
aversive a bit--usually, to taking two big handfuls of ruff
as I move backwards.
Some dogs do get "long line wise.""
No, some trainers are just long line stupid.
You can't force a dog to come.
"That is, they never refuse a recall while on the long line
but when the long line is gone, they are unreliable even if
the handler started with close recalls off lead in a familiar
(and safely fenced) area."
That's because you can't teach compliance with force no
matter HOWE gently you try to force. ANY force, even verbal
intimidation, will cause the opposition reflex to compel the
dog to do other than what you want.
Too bad you sharp trainers here don't understand that. It's
called positive thigmotaxis, and it's just as valid with a
choke collar as it is with a mental attitude. Force causes
the dog to not respond.
"IF the dog never ever refuses a recall while on the long
line, no matter what the distraction (and I am pretty good
at devising distractions for this test!), then I move to a
shock collar."
That's a competent clicker trainer, by golly!
Where do you people come off with that kind of crap?
Here's Miss ****rly, the CLICKER TRAINER you recommended to us:
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: M ****rley Chong <eithne @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:16:30 -0500
Subject: Re: OT Big dog problem. Serious help needed
MasterofDelight wrote:
> Welcome back, and it sure did not take you long to pick up on
> the dog training thread. As you can see, you commentary was missed.
Thanks!
Yes, there's nothing more likely to lure me out of lurk
mode than a training question. I'd planned to lurk for
a couple weeks to get up to speed again but before I
knew it, the keyboard was rattling.
> OB:bdsm Do you give advice on "puppy training" too?
Sure! I may not have a clue as to what I'm talking
about but that never stops me.
****rley eithne @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.****rleychong.com
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: M ****rley Chong <eit...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:48:53 -0500
Subject: Re: pregnancy and S&M?
dionysiangrrrl wrote:
> I just learned I'm pregnant, and while in most respects, I find it to be
> excellent news, I'm a little concerned about play time. I'm a fairly
heavy
> masochist used to frequent beatings and torture, and have held back from
> play so far until I get a little more advanced, just to be safe. But if
I
> make it healthily through the first trimester, does anyone have any
advice
> for pregnancy whompings? (Besides the fairly obvious "no more gut
> punches" rule :)
Congratulations!
My advice is to ask your doctor. Because your doctor is the
one who knows your specific conditions, because there's a
lot of advice out there of varying quality (including this!)
and because it's im****tant to have peace of mind that you
are doing the right thing at a time like this.
Most doctors have heard it all. If they haven't heard it all,
they should have. <G> If you have reason to believe that your
doctor may react badly then maybe that's an indication this
isn't the doctor for you.
Better to find this out now rather than when you are in
labor and not in the mood to holler at some rank narrow
mindedness and unable to gather your dignity and march out.
Those hospital gowns just don't cut it for dignified exits
unless you back out the door and then there's the little
problem of who is out in the hall.
Much easier in the long run to tell the truth.
****rley
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: redneckpai...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Joe Sergio)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 00:51:40 GMT
Subject: Re: OT Big dog problem. Serious help needed
JK said:
> Gee, let's see, why not take your dogs to a training school
> or ask your local police how they do it with their dogs?!
Ive already called the K9 officer in my town.
Left a message. He will get in touch with me.
> And I don't know do you think maybe slapping your dogs
> around so much and living with them, I mean all that
> attention you are giving them might just have something to
> do with why they like you and your family more than the
> neighbors?
I don't slap them around so much. I'll pop em, and all
when they do something wrong, and fuss at em. But I have
found something even better to make them stop what they
are doing.
A dustbuster. Just turn it on. Or show it to them. They
hate any type of va*** cleaner. It's worked about keeping
Jake out of the garbage. I sat in the kitchen a whole day,
and every time he went to the garbage can and went to stick
his head in, I turned it on. He stopped that.
Mainly I just pet them. They lay there by my chair and I
reach down and scratch them. They get up in the chair with
me. Tha'ts not easy when they are that big. But they still
think they are puppies. I do spoil them sometimes, but they
are my boys, and I love them.
> Hey, but this is the SSBB clearinghouse and you know the brain
> bucket is just outside and we do expect you to leave your brain
> there first before you post your problems here. Afterall, we all know
> that SSBB has all the answers you need for all your problems. Don't
> bother picking up your phone and calling around 'cause you got the
> good ole SSBB to help solve your problems.
You dumbass, I did call around and ask some advice from
other folks as well first. I posted it here because Miss
****rley trains dogs, and there are a few folks here who
know more about it than I do.
Why do you try to turn every post you reply to into a noncon
humiliation scene with you topping? Could it be that this is
the only action your getting? LOL
> Time to fetch your brain. Come on boy you can do it. There you go.
I'd ask you to fetch yours, but I don't think you can
see something that small without a microscope.
--
Joe
Suck a lifesaver today, put a fireman in your mouth.
--------------
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: M ****rley Chong <eit...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004
Subject: Re: OT Big dog problem. Serious help needed
Katharine H. wrote:
> He does pretty well in his "walking gear" -- which is what the prong
> and leash are. When I put the prong collar and leash on, he still
shows
> other aggression behaviors to new men in the house but does not lunge
> (because he doesn't tighten his leash on the prong.) I think he does
> pretty well with the leash behaviors (given he's got a run-of-the-mill
> owner-type).
What other sorts of behaviours does he show?
> He is mostly fine when we are off the property. He still must stay
> leashed, but the only people he shows aggression to are fly fisherman
> (something about the gear freaks him out) and other dogs. Other people
> he basically ignores. My biggest issue are other dog owners whose dogs
> are off leash and want to come up and say hello. My beast will play
well
> with a dog who submits, but will fight with one who doesn't.
I have a solution for that one. When some clueless idjit
allows their dog to come up to mine, I call over sweetly
"don't worry, the vet doesn't think he's infectious anymore."
A carryover from my years showing horses when idjits leading
a horse down the aisle of a barn would let their horse poke
it's head into my horse's stall. I'd grab a bottle of Ring-Ex
(ringworm medication) and start spritzing ostentatiously. And
mention that my vet thought we had the infestation cleared up.
I never mentioned that the bottle was full of plain water. <G>
If I'm not in a nice mood, I just scare the bejeebers out
of the oncoming dog to send it away. When they say "but
he's friendly" I say "well, I'm not." My dogs never have
to defend themselves on leash. I think they sort of enjoy
seeing me chase other dogs away, there's a certain smugness
in the way they lean against me while looking at the other dog.
> Bottom line though... this dog is killing my *** life because I can't
> introduce men into the house and I've been in the mood for men the past
> several months. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, so I've called a
> local trainer and she's going to teach me how to more effectively deal
> with the beast before I figure it's time to enter a monastary :-) This
dog
> is so docile with me... the contrast in behaviors is amazing.
Nooooo, not the monastary! Your scene re****ts are
incredibly good and would be a loss to pervkind.
****rley
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: M ****rley Chong <eit...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:38:40 -0500
Subject: Re: OT Big dog problem. Serious help needed
I'm piggybacking from Nicole Diver:
> Katharine H. writes: "This is my new tactic -- my 3 yr old rottie/lab
mix
> has become *extremely* aggressive when new people, in particular men,
> come onto his territory. All people who are coming to my home for the
> first time are warned to expect aggression. They are then given the
option
> of dealing with the dog or not. If the new guests are not "dog people" I
> will make the choice for them and the dog will stay in the backyard
while
> I have people over. If they do want to make friends with the dog, then
the
> dog goes on a leash and prong collar when they enter the house. When I
> let them in, he is snarling, lunging, etc. As soon as the treats come
out
> it's
> a whole new ballgame. The pup sits and wags his tail and is ready to
> make friends. It generally takes time for him to warm up to new men."
Katherine, I have nothing against the use of prong collars
and recommend them when I feel it is appropriate. Just like
any tool, there are situations when a prong collar is the
best tool for a job and there situations where a prong
collar is the worst tool for a job.
Prong collars do tend to magnify a dog's aggressive tendencies.
If the dog is at all inclined to bite unreasonably, the prong
collar will often send it right over the edge.
<snip BD/SM and proceed directly to MURDER>
Re: homer bit me :(
"elegy" <el...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:e71pt2lsdt1sskllan43i2qdf5bp7iqcu1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ago and far away, Mary Healey <mhhea...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> did say:
>elegy <el...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>news:1m6nt2l1m8uiepjg04slfa9hg33ig1h7ta@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> i'm really disappointed in myself, because i wigged out on him for it,
>
> I'm not sure you should be. Maybe it's because I'm used to dogs that'll
> keep pu****ng barriers just to find the limits (if any), but the bottom
> line is that Homer did something completely unacceptable (for whatever
> good and justified reason) and discovered that, yes, there is an upper
> boundary beyond which his new human gets a bit testy. That's a good
> thing for a dog of any age to learn.
i worry that he reacted out of fear
and i gave him more reason to fear.
luce is a huge barrier-pusher. i've wigged out
on her a few times, too, and that i don't think
was necessarily a bad thing. but with this guy,
because he's kinda timid and i think kinda
fearful, i feel bad about.
>> i put him in his crate until i calmed down enough to not do
>> anything else stupid.
>
> Well, see, you learned something valuable. Homer learned
> something valuable. It's all good. Neither of you will need
> to repeat this particular lesson. I hope so, anyway.
i put a harness on him and he seems much more
comfortable with having that held. he simply
cannot be handle-less until he learns things like
come, stay, and to go in his crate.
--
And now, each night I count the stars.
And each night I get the same number. (Amiri Baraka)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in the headers
-----------------------------------
Subject: i don't know what to do
From: elegy
Date: Monday, February 26, 2007
homer full-on attacked me tonight. multiple puncture wounds on my
hand, torn pants, dog that kept coming. he meant it tonight. he meant
to hurt me, not just to say "i don't like this".
i was trying to teach him to down using a lure and he totally and
completely wasn't getting it at all, so i was trying to physically
show him what i wanted. yeah. guess not.
i don't know what to do.
i have always said that i WILL NOT tolerate a dog who
bites, that i WILL NOT have a dog like that in my house.
it's easy to say when you're not faced with that, eh?
--
And now, each night I count the stars.
And each night I get the same number. (Amiri Baraka)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in the headers
"diddy" <diddy@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:Xns98E5C5FE36862danny@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
thread news:uj6cu2937ccs8thufja20mgpc73l715r42@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
elegy
<elegy@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> whittled the following words:
Subject: Re: brothers and sisters, i bid you beware
> of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
>
> i don't remember what the last update i posted on homer was
> and i'm too tired and flat-out drained to go back and look.
>
> he saw the vet yesterday and wigged out and tried to hurt him. i spent
> half an hour on the phone with a behaviorist who was recommended both
> by my trainer and whom we recommend at work. she felt his prognosis
> was pretty grim and that he's dangerous. most of what she does is work
> with aggressive dogs. the only thing he has on his side in this is
> that he's on the small side. everything else about his biting is
> seriously bad news.
>
> i worked a half day today and spent the rest of it spoiling him,
> snuggling him, feeding him cookies and mcdonalds french fries.
> everytime he moves his head quickly i jump, in case he's planning on
> biting me.
>
> tomorrow morning i'll hold him close and whisper in his ear how much i
> love him and how sorry i am that his life was what it was, and send
> him on to a better place.
>
> and then i'll cry some more.
>
> i feel like i've been crying for two solid days.
>
> --
> And now, each night I count the stars.
> And each night I get the same number. (Amiri Baraka)
> http://shattering.org
> x-no-archive: yes in the headers
You meant so well. I'm so sorry
-------------
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: elegy <e...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 23:09:44 -0400
Subject: Re: A question about pit bulls.
Note: The author of this message requested
that it not be archived. This message will
be removed from Groups in 20 hours
unknown history has less to do with the
possibility of fighting than genetics.
you can take the pit bull out of the pit but
you can't take the pit out of the pit bull.
personally i am not willing to risk my dogs'
lives by leaving two fighting breed dogs alone
together no matter how well they get along when
i'm there.
--
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:36:24 -0400
Subject: Re: A question about pit bulls.
Note: The author of this message requested
that it not be archived. This message will
be removed from Groups in 6 hours
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:49:57 -0400, elegy
<e...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
any *good* vet will take the dog at face value
and not muzzle or notmuzzle based on breed alone.
most pit bulls are actually fantastic at the vet
because they're such a people-loving and stoic
breed. i actually haven't yet had a bad experience
with a pit bull working in a veterinary environment,
even ones that were bad torn up from fights.
i know there are nasty pit bulls out there, and
fear-biters as well, but thankfully they're they
minority.
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Russ" <dontmailmeillmail...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:01:09
Subject: Re: A question about pit bulls.
L Alpert,
It's unknown how a just graduated from highschool 17
year old male will act in the Summer holidays at the
local hang out, when confronted by the bully that
bullied and tormented him throughout the last 5 years
of highschool.
He may fall in line or he may react. Your dog is just
maturing, he may decide to be lower in the pack for
his entire life. Especially if you sup****t the alpha.
BUT, if the pit decides in his own mind that it is
enough and decides to challenge for the top spot.
Your lifestyle will most likely change. All we are
trying to tell you is, be ready, be prepared, and
take precautions.
I don't know if you have seen a pitbull in its
virgin fight, but I can tell you they don't need
to taught to win against 99% of the other breeds
like rotties, gsd's, labs, etc. they will kick
ass and you will be mopping up.
Cleaning wounds and sticking your fingers into 1
nch deep gashes and punctures is not fun. And this
happened when I was there to break it up.
Imagine if you are not there to intervene. I am so
glad my dogs don't hate each other. Otherwise I would
have have a serious dilemma:) "X's fingers and thanks God"
===================
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
The Pit Bull Problem,
Breed Specific Legislation
And
The Pit Bull Fancier / RESCUER
HOWEDY People,
Thanks to katie aka elegy (elegy@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
),
a devHOWET Pit Bull RESCUER who's love and life revolves
arHOWEND RESCUING defenseless, misunderstood Pit Bull
Dogs, we have "The Pit Bull Problem":
HOWEDY elegy you miserable lying dog abusing punk thug
coward active acute long term incurable MENTAL CASE,
elegy wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:30:35 -0500, kate <kate@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm a new (and somewhat reluctant) owner of a pit bull.
> > I'm not sure this is the right place to ask, but I'm
> > giving it a shot.
Seems Kat AIN'T been PAYIN ATTENTION here on The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums, eh elegy? You think you can
HOODWINK her into HURTIN her dog like HOWE you do
your dogs, elegy, you SHELTER / RESCUE dog lover?
> > Can pit bulls play with other dogs off leash?
A DOG IS A DOG, AIN'T THAT SO, elegy.
> > Can they ever be off leash
Just like ANY other BREED.
> > if not in a fenced area?
ONLY IF you know HOWE to install the come command as a
CONDITIONAL REFLEX as taught in your own FREE COPY
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.
> i have two pits.
INDEEDY. And you jerk and choke them on your pronged
spiked pinch choke collar and SHOCK them to CONTRAIN
them in your yard and if they DON'T LIKE THAT you
take them to the SHELTER to be MURDERED for bein
AGGRESSIVE.
> one is nutsy around all other dogs
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.
ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> except his "sister",
MOST of HOWER DOG LOVERS can't keep their
own OPPOSITE *** dogs withHOWET fighting.
> but luce can play nicely with certain other dogs.
You mean when he AIN'T AFRAID.
> she's got a good standard poodle friend and a
> good goldendoodle friend, and she's played with
> a couple of other male dogs, always in a very
> controlled environment
You mean when you're standin right there ready
to THREATEN and HURT him if he acts AFRAID.
> and with careful and appropriate introductions.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!
> i would never ever ever take her to a dogpark though.
That's curiHOWES ain't it, elegy.
> ever.
On accHOWENT of your dogs are FEAR AGGRESSIVE
JUST LIKE the rest of these mentally ill lyin
dog abusing punk thug cowards for the same reason.
> she also can't be off-leash in an unfenced area
On accHOWENT of she'll RUN HOWET ON YOU on accHOWENT
of YOU CHOKE and SHOCK your dogs, isn't THAT correct,
elegy you miserable lying dog abusing punk thug coward.
> because her recall is lousy
DESPITE your SHOCK COLLAR, just like jeff dege's dog, elegy?
> in the face of anything she wants to chase.
INDEED? BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> mushroom's recall is somewhat better
You mean he WON'T COME unless you can HURT him ENOUGH.
> but i still wouldn't take my chances.
On accHOWENT of you're a DOG ABUSING SIMPLETON.
> > With all the media hype about pits,
That MEDIA HYPE COMES FROM the Pit Bull Fanciers
like elegy. Isn't that correct, elegy. Remember last week
when you sent in that link with all the EXXXCELLENT
advice? They SELL SHOCK COLLARS.
They advised to break a dog of chasing his tail to allow him
to DO IT for a minute AND THEN IGNORE IT despite that
TAIL CHASING is an ANXXXIHOWESNESS BEHAVIOR
which can become COMPULSIVE / OBSESSIVE.
> > and the different rescue websites
The RESPONSIBLE ETHICKAL RESCUE DOG LOVERS like elegy...
> > I've visited, it sounds like you never want them
> > to become overstimulated. If true, how do you keep
> > a hyper dog from becoming over stimulated?
HYPERACTIVE DOGS ARE MADE HYPERACTIVE BY DOG ABUSERS LOCKING THEM IN BOXES
and CHOKING and
SHOCKING THEM.
> i don't think you have to worry about them getting
> overstimulated so much as you have to worry about
> them being dog aggressive,
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!
> which is absolutely normal for the breed.
THAT'S INSANE, elegy. THAT'S HOWE COME Pit
Bull dogs GOT a BAD REPUTATION you dog abusing
MENTAL CASE.
> some pit bulls are more dog aggro than others,
A DOG IS A DOG, elegy. You HURT INTIMIDATE
and MURDER dogs that SCARE YOU, elegy.
> some have very specific dislikes (luce hates female dogs
Luce is FEAR AGGRESSIVE of same *** dogs,
unlike your male dog who's FEAR AGGRESSIVE
of ALL dogs, isn't that correct, elegy.
> of similar body type and will try to eat them
> but small female dogs and giant female dogs
> seem to be ok).
THAT'S INSANE.
> some are just quick to take offense in play.
No, they're AFRAID on accHOWENT of YOU ABUSE THEM.
> luce is a very high energy dog.
You mean she's HYPERACTIVE.
> i take her to run in a fenced yard daily.
Or she'll GO INSANE JUST LIKE THE REST of HOWER
DOG LOVER'S FEAR AGGRESSIVE HYPERACTIVE DOGS:
"Max will go BONKERS if exercise deprived," marshall dermer.
> she and mushroom, my male, play a lot of tug and
> a lot of chase. when it was just her and me, we
> played a lot of tug and did a lot of training.
Your "TRAINING" is HOWE COME she's HYPERACTIVE
and FEAR AGGRESSIVE.
> brain work seems to tire her out a
> lot faster than purely physical play.
Naaah? Do tell?
> (mushroom's pretty low energy. just walking
> and general play tires him out plenty.)
Oh. You mean he's hpothyroid, a STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> --
> read banned books.
> http://shattering.org
> x-no-archive: yes in headers
Here's elegy aka katie doin her beast to IDENTIFY
the Pit Bull Problem and SAVE the Pit Bull from
harm by EXXXPOSING the rabid anti Pit Bull hysteria:
> you don't have to be a big-time pit bull
> activist to be aware of the pit bull problem.
A DOG Is A DOG;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
> all you have to do is tune into the nightly news. it's
> there all the time. such and such pit bull attacked this
> child, this old person's little fluffy dog, the neighbor,
> etc etc etc. some of it isn't true-sometimes it's not pit
> bulls. and there are plenty of other dog attacks happening,
> but they aren't as fa****onable right now, so they're less
> likely to be re****ted (or their re****ted with "pit bull"
> in the headline despite the actual breed of dog).
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Cir***stances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
> there is a pit bull problem.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
> there is an extreme overpopulation problem in the us right
> now. extreme. over a million pit bulls are euthanized every
> single year in shelters in this country. some shelters
> euthanize every single pit bull who crosses the threshold
> into their buildings.
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
> these dogs don't even get the op****tunity for a new life.
Many dog lovers believe DEATH is superior to bein locked
in a box in a "shelter" till the day the dog dies of a
natural death as G-D intended <{); ~ ) >
Many animal activists believe dogs who cannot ENJOY normal
natural lives cohabitating with humans and other animals in
harmony would be better off gently and humanely EUTHANIZED.
> and yet, people are pumping out more and more and more dogs
> for a quick buck, because they're too lazy to spay and neuter,
Many dog lovers and animal rights activists believe that dogs
SHOULD be surgically ***ually mutilated for their own protection
DESPITE that surgical ***ual mutilation CAUSES AGGRESSION.
> because breeding pit bulls is somehow fa****onable.
Of curse, the only people who'd see dog aggressive dogs as
FASIONABLE would be Pit Bull Fanciers, DOG FIGTHERS
and active acute chronic long term incurable mental cases who
see themselves as Pit Bull ACTIVISTS <{); ~ ) >
> there are very very few breeders who do it right.
ETHICKAL breeders and Pit Bull Fanciers always BLAME
"poorly bred / unethical backard / puppy mill / pet shop " breed
stock for the PROBLEMS of their favorite breed <{); ~ ) >
> they are out there, but chances are, they don't have
> a litter on the ground, and in this "have-it-now"
> society, people will go where there is supply,
> consequences and ethics be damned.
Well then, it would seem it behooves the ETHICKAL breeders
to fulfill the DEMAND for and SUPPLY ETHICKALLY BRED
dog aggressive high strung demanding overbearing PET and
SHOW DOGS to obviate the UNETHICAL backyard / puppy
mill sold in pet shop breed stock, like Petey from "HOWER
GANG" t.v. series.
> a responsible breeder is breeding maybe a litter
> a year right now. certainly no more than two.
OtherWIZE they'd be PUPPYMILLERS.
> and they are breeding dogs with both conformation (show
> ring) titles and working titles. these are working dogs,
> after all.
Of curse, the ONLY "WORK" a Pit Bull dog is suited
for are pullin sledges in competition and DOG FIGHTING.
> they were not developed as companion dogs,
That's SHEER IDIOCY as evidenced by Petey on HOWER GANG.
> though they make wonderful companions.
That's a oxymoron, AIN'T IT.
> these dogs were bred to work.
CITES PLEASE, katie?
> they love to work.
WHAAAT "WORK"???
> responsible breeders are health testing the dogs
For GENETIC DIS-EASES caused by IN BREEDING.
> that they're breeding.
INDEEDY!
> this means they OFA hips, shoulders,
The "hip" problems are CAUSED by nutritional deficiencies.
> cardiac, thyroid, and CERF
The cardiac / thyroid problems and eye problems
are CAUSED by POOR NUTRITION and STRESS.
> poorly bred blue pit bulls are prone to skin conditions like
> demodex (a type of mange which is a result of a poor immune
> system) and allergies.
CASE CLOSED, eh People???
> many of these problems have a genetic component
The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard has DISCREDITED
the Canine Genome Project base on the DISCREDITATION of
the EXXXPERTS workin on it, dra. karen overall and her
"patients" professora melanie chang and her fear aggressive
hyperactive BC Solo, who, after FIVE YEARS of "TREATMENT"
and psychotropic anti psychotic medications has made NO
improvement:
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp
Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't
Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still
Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My
Cat," Melanie Lee Chang * mch...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Canine Behavioral Genetics Project
University of California, San Francisco
http://psych.ucsf.edu/K9BehavioralGenetics/
From: Rocky (2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> and while it wouldn't be possble to completely eliminate
> health problems through health testing, it is possible to
> lessen the chance of them.
That's ABSURD.
> responsible breeders get to know potential buyers.
Ahhh, THAT'S the SECRET to ETHICKAL BREEDIN,
AIN'T IT, dog lovers.
> they grill them.
Perhaps they should "catch and release" them?
> they care about where their dogs are going, and
> they keep track of them through their entire lives.
OtherWIZE they'd be COMPETING with their own BREED STOCK.
> they microchip pups before they leave.
Microchippin dogs to PREVENT ESCAPE??? That's ABSURD.
But it HAS been implicated in CAUSING CANCERS.
> they have tight and required spay/neuter contracts.
Surgical ***ual mutilation is unnecessary unethical
veterinary malpractice which ONLY benefits the
ETHICKAL VETERINARY MALPRACTICIONER
and ETHICKAL BREEDER <{):~ ( >
> they are willing to take their pups back at any time,
As they frequently must do.
> no matter what.
And then they MURDER them as bein UNFIT for WORKIN with people.
> they accept that they created them and are responsible for them.
AND THEY MURDER THEIR OWN DEFECTIVE DOGS.
> responsible breeders do NOT contribute
> to the number of dogs in the shelter.
Perhaps they DO by not meeting the market needs for
large numbers of ETHICKALLY BRED Pit Bull dogs <{); ~ ) >
Here's a ETHICKAL Grey HOWEND rescuer:
"After Numerous Training Cl*****, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unim****tant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
-----------
> did i mention how few of these responsible breeders there are?
INDEEDY.
> an irresponsible breeder lets these dogs go to anyone
Like folks who'd allHOWE their ETHICKALLY BRED dogs to
go to dog parks and jeopardize the safety of J.Q. Pubic <{); ~ ) >
> and after the money has changed hands, they are done with
> the pups. these are the dogs that grow up to have unstable
> temperaments, or to be absolutely unsuitable for the family
> that bought them, to be too much work, to cost too much, to
> have health problems that the owners weren't bargaining for.
That's ABSURD.
> these are the dogs who get dumped in shelters every single
> day. these are the dogs running the streets, chained in the
> backyard, unsound in temperament.
No. These are the dogs who've been driven INSANE
by jerking choking shocking crating and surgical
***ual mutilation, poor diet and veterinary malpractice.
> but what can we do? i feel so helpless in the face of
> such rampant backyard breeding. i feel so helpless to
> do anything but talk myself blue about the problem and
> hope the word spreads.
We're workin on it, elegy...
> Coming Soon! Blogathon 2005 will be taking place on August
> 6, beginning at 9 AM Eastern time. My charity this year
> is Pit Bull Rescue Central.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM!!!
> To sponsor me: my "campaign" information is listed here.
> In order to sponsor me, though, you have to register an
> account with the blogathon site. This doesn't mean you
> have to blog, stay up crazy hours, or anything like that.
> They just need your information in their system. From
> there you will be able to enter your pledge amount. It's
> supposed to be fixed so that it'll take you right back to
> my info, but if it doesn't, you'll unfortunately have to
> search through the campaigns. Mine is listed under the
.. name katie and the website shattering [dot] org. Thanks
> to everyone for your >sup****t!
> 08/06/2005: "11: the pit bull problem (part 2)"
> overbreeding is part one of the pit bull problem. it's
> a very significant part, mind you, but i don't think the
> most signficant part.
Agreed. The MOST SIGNIFICANT part is the Pit Bull Fancier
who jerks chokes shocks crates ribes intimidates and surgically
***ually mutilates their dogs whom they CANNOT CONFINE
despite their six foot privacy fence with shock barrier <{): ~ ( >
> irresponsible and uneducated owner****p of these dogs
> is the most significant part of the pit bull problem.
INDEEDY: The Pit Bull Fancier.
> people get these dogs because they're cool, because
> they're "dangerous", because they're there.
AND BECAUSE THEY NEED SAVING <{); ~ ) >
> they have no idea what they're getting into.
AS WE'LL SEE:
> these are very high maintainance dogs.
katie means they're HYPERACTIVE:
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
> they're prone to dog aggression.
THAT'S INSANE. ALL aggression is FEAR. ALL FEAR
is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING as HOWER Pit Bull
Fanciers promote in their ETHICKAL BREEDING campaines.
> they're athletic and rowdy. they will get out of your yard.
> luce has gotten out of the yard three times and she's never
> ever left unattended, with six foot privacy fencing even.
> she's been through the fence (nice of her to find the loose
> boards) and under the fence. i know she'll be over it one
> day.
Well then perhaps you should learn HOWE to
pupperly TRAIN your dogs, elegy aka katie???
> they need a lot of training, and while they're
> smart dogs and usually very trainable dogs,
It's your "TRAINING" that causes those pronlems.
Perhaps they're SMART ENOUGH to HOWEtwit
the cunning of the dedicated Pit Bull Fancier and
domestic puppy dog trainers:
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have re****ted ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents tem****arily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
> they're smart enough to make up their own games, and
> they're smart enough to know what they can get away
> with (more than you'd expect, i guarantee!)
Perhaps THAT'S on accHOWENT of the ETHICKAL Pit Bull
Fancier AIN'T GOT the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunnin
of the domestic puppy dog <{); ~ ) >
> they're often prey-driven and will chase, catch, and
> kill cats or small dogs or whatever else is out there
> running.
That's INSANE:
From: Jeff Dege <j...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:58:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Squirrell chasing / Prey drive !!!!
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:06:57 -0400, buzzsaw wrote:
> A Loose Leash !?! Are you kidding me ... this
> dog is ready to go and the site of a squirell he
> is gone loose leash, tight leash, no leash.
> He can see them clear as far as 5 blocks,
> in fact when a leaf blows he is ready to bounce.
> He sees a empty water bottle, or a sprinkle head
> on the grass as approaching he is tensing up
> because it just may be rocky the squirell.
> I think the e collar is appropiate here?
> Although I never used one on him.
Won't make any difference.
I've been using an e-collar with my JRT, and it's
worked wonders for his recall. But the one time
he bolted after something small and furry, he paid
no attention to the collar until after he'd brought
it to bay.
Jeff Dege.
> Jeff Dege <j...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>> So my dog is going to decide that sitting beside me is more
>> interesting than chasing the squirrel across the street
>> because he _trusts_ me?
>
> In a convoluted way, and in part, Lucy is right. As Mary wrote,
> dogs put up with our human idiosyncrasies because we've built up
> a bond of trust. And *not* chasing a squirrel is certainly a
> strange thing from a dog's POV.
>
> Lucy, though, thinks that every dog is a dog, and that my Aussie
> will react to a squirrel the same way a hound or a Huskie will.
> In my house, "trust" with a prey-motivated dog involves a leash.
Near [sic] is a Jack Russell. And I trust that when he's
in prey-drive, he'll not even hear me call him.
-----------
From: "lindalee" <llindaleedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 21 Jan 2006 18:34:10 -0800
Subject: Chasing squirrels
I have not posted to the group for awhile but
want to share my success of teaching my dog
Sun****ne, who has a very high prey drive, to
not go after squirrels when on a walk. It
took a few trials but he can now walk right
past squirrels running up a tree or in a yard.
Using Jerry Howe's approach I used a sound to
get his attention when he saw a squirrel and
then praised him and kept on walking past the
squirrel. Where we live in Michigan we lots of
squirrels and he was always wanting to chase
them up a tree. Jerry's approach of sound
and praise really works.
I think the people who discount his methods
have never tried the method because it works
everytine. Sometimes it takes a little practice
to get the sound from different directions but
I was able to change Sun****ne's behavior in
just a week after we moved back to Michigan.
Sun****ne is a very sensitive dog so any physical
corrections just won't work but using sound and
praise he is a really great dog who opens doors,
picks up things I drop, and and helps me a lot.
If you have a behavior problem with your dog get
a copy of Jerrry's manual and solve your problem!
---------------
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Witsend...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
----------------
> they have very muscular jaws and are more than willing
> to put them to good use on whatever appeals (furniture,
> shoes, walls) unless you teach them otherwise.
Destructive chewin is CAUSED BY anXXXIHOWESNESS
from MISHANDLING therefore it CAN BE EXXXTINGUISHED
NEARLY INSTANTLY.
I THINK YOU GET THE POINT.
DON'T YOU.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> they should be as close to fearless as dogs come, extremely
> confident, and stubborn. a dangerous combination when left
> to their own devices.
Then perhaps they should all be euthanized.
> dog aggression is the *norm* in these dogs-
No. ALL aggression is FEAR.
ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> they're a fighting breed! this means
> they cannot go to dog parks, period.
THAT'S INSANE:
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is im****tant - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
------------------------
> they may very well play nice with certain dogs (mine do)
katie's own dogs cannot be trusted together.
> but want to kill others (mine do)
LUCKY THING katie is a EXXXPERT on Pit Bull Aggression.
> and this is normal and not the end of the world.
UNLESS you're the innocent VICTIM of ETHICKAL Pit Bull Owners:
Really Bad Day
Date: 2004-03-21 17:34:07 PST
HOWEDY leah,
"Leah" <dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> The mom of a graduate student
BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You're no dog trainer, you're a FRAUD.
> interrupted my class,
Class??? You don't have trainin cl***** you
teach people to throw treats to dogs for mindless
unthinking behaviors and tell folks to jerk and
choke and shock dogs when bribing and avoiding
behaviors doesn't work an then you try to get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.
> in a state of shock,
AnyWON who'd trust you to train them to handle
their dog was in a state of shock or takin anti psychotic
meds before they started.
> to tell me that her rottie had killed a little
> dog at a dog park today.
Tough break. R.I.P., dog.
-----------------------
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.
(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").
Full moon.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.
YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT "GRADUATE
STUDENT" Rottie who'd been in your "SOCIALIZATION
cl*****" since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.
> I will always remember the dogs.
Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
From: dfrntdr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard
>"Mike E" m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"
Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}
PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."
Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.
PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
> unless a dog is over the top crazy aggressive, it can
> be trained, as long as you're willing to put in the work,
Like your own dogs, katie?
> to behave in public.
LIKE THIS?:
"Ama...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..
she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.
I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..
we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.
She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.
One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.
two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..
actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.
She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.
---------
> that dog will never be safe off-leash in an uncontrolled
> environment (ie, dogpark!) but there is no reason that dog
> can't have a full life on a leash and in controlled situations
> with other familiar doggy friends.
Like her own dogs who ESCAPE her fence despite
NEVER bein UNSUPERVISED and CANNOT be
TRUSTED bein left together <{): ~ ) >
> there is a certain faction of people who believe with
> all their hearts that dog aggression can be loved out
> of pit bulls, can be socialized out, can be trained out.
> this is a dangerous dangerous belief, in my opinion.
Just like HOWE there are CERTAIN PEOPLE who believe
with all their hearts that dog aggression IS CAUSED by
ETHICKAL Pit Bull Fanciers trainers and veterinary
malpracticioners.
> socializing is extremely im****tant
Socialization is DONE by the time a puppy leaves the litterbox.
> and can make the difference between a dog who only
> has trouble with a few dogs and a dog who wants to
> eat every single dog,
INCONSISTENCY is the BANE of the scientific method.
ANY dog who's INCONSITENT in AGGRESSION and other
temperament or behaivor problems PROVES the PROBLEM
is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING <{): ~ ) >
> but pit bulls have been bred for generation upon generation
> to be aggressive toward dogs, to fight with them, and to fight
>to the END with them. we don't expect retrievers to not retrieve.
That's INSANE.
> we don't expect herding breeds to not herd. why
> do people expect fighting breeds to not fight??
If your ETHCIKALLY BRED field and herding dog BREEDERS
had generations after generations of line bred field and herding dogs
they WOULDN'T NEED SHOCK COLLAR TRAININ to train their
NATURALLY BRED WORKIN STOCK, would they, elegy aka katie.
> but i think the biggest problem is all is where the two
> problems- the overbreeding and the poor owner****p meet.
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
> people buy these dogs from crappy breeders
You mean CRAPPY BREEDERS who WON'T TAKE BACK
their own puppy mill backyard bred stock to MURDER for their
puppy customers when mishandling causes fear and aggression
problems.
> and they get dogs with terrible temperaments.
Of curse SOME people believe with all their hearts that those
"PROBLEMS" are CAUSED by MISHANDLING, not
UNETHICAL BREEDERS who DON'T TAKE BACK their
stock to be MURDERED for their puppy customers <{): ~ ) >
> dogs who are fearful, dogs who may even be aggressive
> toward humans. and they accept this in their pet and
> think it is normal, and then somebody gets hurt.
Like when your dogs escape your fence or attack each other
OR attack *you* for jerking choking shocking and bribing
and forcing them like HOWE you MURDERED your own
DEAD RESCUE dog Homer?
> human aggression in pit bulls is NOT ACCEPTABLE.
INDEED?
> these dogs were NOT bred to be guard dogs.
Well FRAUDreck hassen has some CHUMPion titled winnin
Pit Bull Attack dogs who work very nicely in the show environment.
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
> they were NOT bred to be protection dogs.
On accHOWENT of they DON'T ATTACK HUMANS
unless they come from UNETHICKAL backyard / puppy
mill breeders and pet shops.
> they are supposed to be exuberently friendly with strangers.
UNLESS they're jerked choked shocked bribed crated
intimidated and mutilated by ETHICKAL breeders and
Pit Bull Fanciers like katie aka elegy.
> they are supposed to be sure of themselves, not wary,
> not fearful, not hiding behind the owner, not growling
> under the breath. all of this is unacceptable and the
> signs of an UNSOUND dog.
Of curse ONLY ETHICKAL Pit Bull Fanciers BLAME THE BREED.
> and yet people don't know this, they buy the dogs, they
> adopt the dogs, and they get in trouble or end up in
> heartbreak when they find out that it's not ok.
SOME people "mistakenly believe with all their hearts"
that ALL dog behavior and temperament problems are
CAUSED BY MISHALDING.
> i have a lot of tolerence for dog aggression in these dogs,
That's curiHOWES for a DOG LOVER, AIN'T IT katie???
> perhaps more than most people,
INDEEDY. Hence the name elegy and your DISAPPEARING posts.
> but i have very very little tolerence for human aggression.
THAT'S the NATURE of a NATURAL BORN COWARD.
> there is some aggresion that can be controlled through
> training, desensitization of fearful dogs, peacefully
> reappointing a weak owner as leader of the pack through
> a Nothing In Life Is Free program, but a pit bull who
> is willing to put teeth on a human as an act of aggression
> (whether defensive or offensive) is NOT okay in my book,
> and humane euthanasia is the right decision.
THANK YOU!:
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the s***my likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of **** you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----------
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===========
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
------------
> (i don't necessarily feel this way about all breeds
> of dogs btw. some dogs, such as dobes, were bred for
> a very different purpose and while i don't like dogs
> to bite, i find it much more acceptable in a breed
> that was created to do so.)
THAT'S INSANE.
> 08/06/2005: "2: some more intro-y stuff"
>
> here's me: my name is katie, i work as a veterinary technician,
> and of the six jobs i've had in my short and not very exciting
> life, five have been working directly with animals. i had a desk
> job once and i hated it. i love working with animals and i can't
> imagine a different line of work, though i really wish the one i
> were in paid more. i'm very interested in dog training, and would
> someday like to even work as a trainer, but we'll see about that.
>
> i've only trained my own dogs but i read a lot and discuss a lot
> and watch a lot. there's so much to learn and every dog is so
> different and i love it.
>
> anyway, my two dogs are eleusis, (Eleusis: gateway to
> the underworld.(Greece)E·leu·sis Listen: [ -lss ] An
> ancient city of eastern Greece near Athens, site of
> the Eleusinian mysteries.) a three(ish)-year-old red
> brindle, red nosed pit bull lunatic that i got from
> the local humane society in december of '03.
>
> she's dog aggressive and extremely dog reactive. when i got her
> she was a complete out-of-control nut. she was horrible around
> other dogs. she'd lunge and scream at the top of her lungs (yes,
> scream!) and could not control herself at all. i have put a ton
> of work and time into this dog. she's been through four obedience
> cl***** and a number of private lessons.
>
> she now has her canine good citizen (cgc) certificate and she
> goes to rally obedience matches and i'll eventually get my act
> together enough to compete with her in really trials.
>
> mushroom came a year later after the passing of my miniature poodle.
> he's also around three years old, dark seal pit bull. he's also got
> some dog aggression issues (mostly learned from luce), but he's for
> the most part a very nice, eager, mellow, sweet dog. he holds down
> the couch for me more often than not.
>
> he's a much easier dog than luce, and while he doesn't have his
> cgc yet, that's me being lazy, not him. he's very submissive,
> whereas luce is a very pushy dog with other dogs, so the match
> is a good one.
>
> they've had a few spats and they are never left alone together,
> but they do well as a multi-dog household (except they do tend
> to double-team me with kisses when they're ready to get up and
> i want to sleep five more minutes....)
>
> eleusis
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